Bet Yer Place!

[Fleck]

Obviously, since the full cast hasn't been announced, there's nothing to bet for sure just yet. I just wanted to make sure that I made this thread before anyone else got any wise ideas.

For now, we can make general bets! Woo!

Since Cloud/Aeris is the only team announced so far, I'll start with them. Unless Bob exaggerates their flaws, I see them as being a strong, but very vanilla team. Bob assures me that he's got good ideas planned for all of the teams he's picked (no one likes a boring team), so I hope they won't be strong but dull like several teams in seasons past. Even without knowing the rest of the cast, I say they have strong F3 potential, but I doubt they'll win it all. They just... don't seem like winners to me (but then again, neither did Rufus/Shinra or Reina/Faris, so... yeah...).

[wyvernxk7]

Team 4's going to take it, straight-up.

[Fleck]

This season is quite a contrast from last season. Last season had the highest percentage of NPC characters of all, while this one has the most playable characters of all (just barely). So, for the most part, we are fairly familiar with the ins and outs of most of the racers here. On the surface, that may seem like the job of picking teams would be even easier because of that, but I wouldn’t be too sure. A lot depends on whether or not Bob plays these characters as reversals of their normal selves. A reversal could completely alter a team dynamic, and thus, my prediction concerning that team. My picks are based on the characters according to their in-game personalities. I have no doubt that many of these picks (and their personalities) will be changed after the first leg.

12th = Rafa/Malak- Rafa and Malak are a sad joke in their game, and I don’t foresee Bob playing them any differently. They aren’t one of the more well-developed teams, so it’s hard to pin down their strengths, but their weaknesses come through all too clearly. Rafa and Malak were two of the most useless characters in Tactics, with a pathetic “special” attack that sucked even on the odd occasion when it actually worked. Furthermore, they drag themselves down with easily one of the worst team dynamics in the race. Malak is physically and verbally abusive towards his sister, and is an all-round douchebag. A Jonathan and Victoria copy? It seems likely. Rafa and Malak probably won’t go in the first round, just by the sheer number of teams in the race. But no matter what place they start in each leg, they will always be at extreme risk of elimination. This team is a ticking time bomb ready to implode at any time. Hopefully they’ll be good for some black humor before they inevitably crash and burn.

11th = Setzer/Daryl- It seems unfair to place these two so low in the ranks, but these two are gamblers, and the house always wins. However, I am more than willing to drastically alter my ranking based on how Bob plays these two. If they keep their wild streak at bay and used their gambling skills to play the odds (and play the other racers), they could easily be top-rung competitors. However, if they give in to crazed abandon and take unnecessary risks for the sake of personal thrills, then I will keep them low in the ranks. Additionally, Daryl is almost a complete unknown, which makes it doubly difficult to put a firm placement on these two. Just like any gambling game, this team can never truly be predicted. I can only play the odds.

10th = Kiros/Ward- From a technical standpoint, I would say this duo is one of the strongest in the race. Both are very level-headed, intelligent, hard-working, amiable young men with military experience to boot. However, Ward’s muteness will be quite a challenge for these two. Granted, he’s not deaf, so there’s that much going for them, but his inability to communicate easily with outsiders will prove difficult. I know the term isn’t politically correct anymore, but these two are handicapped. Kiros can understand the gist of Ward’s intentions based on body language, but will random cab drivers, hotel workers, and the other myriads of people they encounter be so observant? I don’t think so, and having Kiros literally do all the talking with slow them down. It’s an interesting coincidence that Ward’s weapon of choice is an anchor, since he will certainly be dragging this team down. If Bob was more sentimental, I’m sure he’d give these two a positive “look what I can do!” message at the end, but I’m hoping for something more amusing than inspirational from this pair.

9th = Celia/Lede- Not only are these two practically unknown, they have almost no dialog or backstories in their game. All I can really discern from these two comes solely from their job class of “demon assassins.” I put these two in the low middle range because while assassin skills may prove to be useful, I get the feeling that assassin work is all these two know. When confronted with an unusual task, these two may begin to struggle, given the fact that their realm of experience is very narrow. But like Setzer/Daryl, I’m ready and willing to adjust their placement, once I know more about them. Given their demonic nature, it’s almost a given that they’ll be villains, or at least have a darker edge to their racing style.


8th = Cid/Hilda- The prize for greatest intellect must surely go to Cid and Hilda. Cid runs all of Lindblum, the most technologically advanced civilization on his planet, complete with all the politics and maneuvering that job entails, and in his free time he designs world-class airships. Hilda is no slouch either, proving to be one of the few women who can outsmart Cid, and able to produce a magical spell that even the smartest people in the world cannot undo. Like most couples in this race, these two have a lot to prove relationship-wise. When we last left these two, they were still recovering from the fallout of Cid’s numerous affairs. If they turn their impressive intellects against each other instead of against the other teams, then they will become their own worst enemies. Add their age into the equation and this team has a lot of opportunities to fall short of the mark.

7th = Godo/Yuffie- Another AFFR team composed of two strong individuals, but combining to form one “maybe/maybe not” team. Yuffie’s personality was initially shaped and driven by her desire to act opposed to her father’s wishes. In the game, Godo all but disowned his daughter, and Yuffie barely even acknowledged that she’d ever had a father to begin with. These two have a lot of differences, but they are still family, and they have some similarities as well. The deciding factor will be if they can come together and find their common ground, or if each of them will allow their personal ideals and drives tear the team apart. Currently, I’m betting on a lot of bickering between the two, possibly leading to destructive internal conflict.

6th = Selphie/Irvine- This team, like most others, can go many different ways. Undoubtedly, these two have physical strength. Their SeeD training will surely come in handy more than once over the course of the race, but aside from their training, what do these two really have? They’ve only just starting dating, which is probably not the best time to start testing the relationship with a long, grueling race. Furthermore, Irvine is a known (and unrepentant) ladies’ man. Is he going to be able to keep himself under control throughout this race, or are his flirtatious ways going to get him (and consequently the team as a whole) into trouble? These two aren’t idiots, but they’re a bit on the air-headed side of things, so they probably can’t save themselves with cleverness. True, Selphie learned how to fly a spaceship without instruction, but that was more the result of reckless luck than skill. This team has a lot of “if’s” to overcome if they want to make it into the final three.

5th = Vaan/Penelo- As I sorted the teams out, these two kept rising progressively higher and higher in the ranks. Initially, I pegged them as an early-mid elimination. I didn’t think these two were anything really special, and for the most part, I still don’t think they are. Though I’ve got them in fifth place right now, an early elimination would not surprise me. Like Reina/Faris, these two have a calm, quiet, understated strength. But the question is how well these two can cope without people like Ashe or Balthier to provide guidance. Neither of these two really seem like “take charge and lead” types. Vaan has his own ideas that he follows, and Penelo spends most of her time keeping him in check, but who’s really in control here? Is Penelo going to dictate things, or is she just going to edit Vaan’s decisions? If the latter, then I predict problems for these two. I don’t think they work well together. Penelo works with Vaan, but Vaan doesn’t really work with Penelo. Whether or not they can come together remains to be seen.

4th = Blank/Marcus- When I think about this team, I think about Zone/Watts, but perhaps even better than their previous season counterparts. Like Zone/Watts, Blank and Marcus have the chance to slip under the radar and coast through a few legs, but unlike ZW, Blank and Marcus have a great many skills at their disposal when mere subterfuge will no longer cut it. Their team bond is unquestionable (just think of all Marcus went through to free Blank from petrification), they have backgrounds in performance, thievery, strategy, weapons, and improvisation. In another season, these two would be easily one of the front runners, but this season is packed with strong, potential winners and amongst all the others, Blank and Marcus fail to stand out. Granted, this could prove to work in their favor, like it did for Reina/Faris, but I don’t think this trick will work twice in two consecutive seasons.

3rd = Tidus/Wakka- Much like their FF10 counterparts Biran and Yenke, I see these two being muscle-over-brains racers. But while they’re not as strong as the Ronso, they make up for it by being a bit more intelligent and versatile. I see these two (barring catastrophe) making it fairly far into the race based on their skills and their likability. I would not be surprised to see these two in an alliance with another team, possibly several others. Forming bonds with the others will hopefully see them through at least a few legs, but they’ll start to slow down when things get more cutthroat towards the end. I don’t think they have what it takes to win, but I can’t imagine them dropping out early either.

2nd = Cloud/Aeris- Originally, these two were my top picks, but the more I thought about them, the more I began to wonder about their ability to take the whole race. Make the top three? It’s certainly within their power. Maybe even likely. Win the whole thing? That’s when it gets sketchy. Hopefully Aeris will provide a strong emotional and mental support for Cloud, who is likely to be mostly muscle in this race. Cloud has a history of self-doubt and emo behavior that Aeris needs to keep in check. If these two can mesh together, then they can form a tough duo. But like Selphie and Irvine, these two are only starting out in their relationship, so therefore much remains to be seen before I can start making firm predictions. But for now, I really get the feeling that these two will follow in the footsteps of Edgar/Sabin and Bathier/Fran and start strong but take a surprising fall.

1st = Lucil/Elma- These two are half unknowns, so placing them at the top of my pick list is a huge guess on my part. I really have no idea how these two are going to perform, and I have little basis for my guesses. These two have a fair amount of screen time, more than say, Daryl or Celia/Lede, but their individual strengths don’t really come out in their few appearances. So I have to guess based on what I know about these two. For one, they’re both of a sorta-military background (“Chocobo Knights” can kinda go either way in regards to being a real military force). For two, they have a clear leader in Lucil, and Elma has no problems with following orders. This rigid structure could prove to be very beneficial, especially when compared to all the other teams who are in the middle of rocky relationships or just embarking on their futures together. And for three, they have no appreciable weaknesses while at the same time, they don’t stand out as obvious targets for yields and u-turns. While these two may not be the most exciting to watch, their subdued, careful, methodical strength will drive them through many legs without drawing the attention of the other teams. I don’t think that they will ultimately win, however, as they seem much too similar to Reina and Faris. I’m not saying that Bob would deliberately plan to have these two removed based on that fact, but I do think that it will influence the course of events.

Also, oddly enough, this season by far has the highest confirmed orphan count. Almost half of the racers in this season have parents who died while they were still fairly young (Cloud, Aeris, Wakka, Vaan, Penelo, Selphie, Irvine, Rafa, and Malak). Just figured I'd mention that.

[countlieberkuhn]

Dang, that's a lot or Orphans.

I won't go the whole hog and list everyone's placements, but my guess at top 3 (in no particular order) would be:

Wakka/Tidus - because athletics tend to go a long way, rather like with Yuna and Rikku. Only the guys have a little more brains, albeit not much more. Problems may arise if Tidus tries to steal the limelight too much though, possibly either upsetting Wakka (who may be wanting to show off to Lulu and Vidina watching back home), or simply trying to do tasks to which Wakka is better suited.

Celia/Lede - Probably the antagonists of the race, and a lot of strengths. Both extremely efficient assassins. I haven't played the game, but from what I gather the pair have great teamwork, efficiency, intellect, and looks at their disposal. Plus, they can use ultima, so must be capable magicians to boot. That, and Bob likes assassin and bounty hunter types

Kiros/Ward - I rate these guys highly, because I think the two have a nice combo. Ward does the heavy lifting, strength requiring tasks, Kiros does the ones that require agility and dexterity. The two have been friends for too long to get into petty squabbles, and will know eachother well enough for Ward's lack of communicative abilities to be a problem. Plus, I want these guys to do well

Honourable mention goes to Cloud and Aeris, mainly because of Cloud's superhuman strength and agility as a result of Mako. Aeris's main job will be keeping his psyche in check, but will otherwise slow him down. Aeris is a brilliant white mage, but I don't think there'll be much use for it in the race, and she doesn't bring much else to the table beyond her impressive people skills and being streetwise. I see this pair falling down when it requires both performing rigourous physical activity... remember when Aeris tried to keep up with Cloud as they jumped the Sector 5 rooftops?

I'll be rooting for Kiros and Ward, but I think Celia and Lede will be most likely to win. Again, I don't really know much about them, but they strike me as the types to not go out of their way to get the job done, and won't waste their own time just to try and send another team even further back. This will be the advantage they have over Jecht/Auron and Reno/Rude if I'm correct in assuming this.

[Fleck]

Very reasonable picks. Yeah, I'm rooting for Kiros/Ward too, but AFFR history shows that it's the teams who lack weaknesses who win, not the teams who have a myriad of strengths. It's better to be average than to be an outlier in most cases. Still, if they can manage the muteness, then they are definite threats.

But yeah, with each passing season, I overthink my picks more and more. Next season I'll probably have statistics, averages, and algebraic equations to support my picks.

[Dale]

All right. All twelve teams are out, so it's my turn. And I'm doing things in descending order instead of ascending order:

1. Blank & Marcus: I think these two will win. They also have the whole package. They've got physical strength, mental abilities, and, as best friends, the ability to work extremely well together as a team. They'll take on any task, the more difficult, the better, and knock it right out of the park. I have them making the F3. And I put them above the team I put below them because they'll even be willing to throw in some cutthroat behavior when it really counts and take the top prize.

2. Lucil & Elma: I did two races with them, as well. They just missed the F3 in one, but actually won the whole thing the second time. I'll also be interested in seeing Bob's take on them. I think they'll be the women's team equivalent of Fran & Balthier last season -- have the whole package and everything it'll take to win. They have the physical strength, the mental strength, and the ability to cooperate. With Lucil being an obvious leader and Elma not being unwilling to follow her lead, they'll do very well together and get very far in the race, maybe even dominate like I myself had them do. However, I'm putting them in second place after reaching the F3 because as well as being a strong team, there has to be a certain kind of slyness you have to do well in the cutthroat aspects of the race that I just don't see them having.

3. Vaan & Penelo: For the same reason Fleck put them in fifth, I put them in third (mainly due to the rest of their competition). These two both possess a lot of individual strengths, but I don't think they'll combine them enough to win. Vaan does a lot of things and makes a lot of decisions independently of Penelo, more often than not to his detriment. And Penelo bases her whole life around Vaan, which is just a sign of man-desperation on her part. I think they'll work together well enough to outlast the clear cannon fodder teams, but when the stronger ones are left, they'll slide by only due to delay points being used on some tougher competition, but at least use enough racing smarts to sort of slide into the F3. They won't win the race at all, though, so I put them down for third place.

4. Tidus & Wakka: I don't have much faith in them getting to the F3 (though they might surprise and make it there, after all). They're both very strong and athletic. But mental tasks will hurt them. They're not dumb, by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think either one proved to be as intelligent as Fleck or Count claims they are (though after his 13 opinions, I don't really acknowledge anything Count thinks, anyway). I think they'll be like Biran & Yenke and get far on physical strength and, like the Ronso, getting lucky on each leg that someone makes one egregiously stupid error to top all of their lesser errors, and make it to fourth place and just miss the F3.

5. Irvine & Selphie: First of all, I think their names should be in that order because it rolls off the tongue much better and more easily. Second of all, only Selphie was a SeeD, Fleck. Irvine was one of the only two members of 8's party (along with Rinoa) who wasn't a SeeD. Third of all, Irvine has known bouts with high-pressure situations that he won't be able to cope with, and I think his ladies' man tendencies will hinder the team a bit too much. I also throw caution to Selphie due to her happy-go-lucky, lackadaisical personality and think it could help them get through at least the first half of the race, but it'll hurt them in the later stages. Their physical strength as fighters will definitely take them far. But mental tasks won't be their thing. They'll go out in fifth place.

6. Godo & Yuffie: I did two races with them. One of which, they made it all the way to the F3 and finished second by just a hair. The other of which, they made only made it to ninth place (though that was an All-Star race with lots of strong teams in it, and they weren't as up to snuff). It'll be interesting to see Bob's take on them. I foresee the same bickering I had them do, and I see them having other similar problems. But I think Godo will do well with mental tasks, while Yuffie will pick up the slack on the physical tasks. Eventually, they'll run up against one too many tasks requiring cooperation that they won't be able to do and fall out of the race in sixth place because of it, becoming the first decoy elimination.

7. Cloud & Aeris: Not that I think these two will be a weak team. I actually don't. I think they'll be quite a strong pair due to Cloud's physical prowess and Aeris's mental prowess. It'll certainly take them quite a ways into the race. The problem is, I think they'll be too strong, like their previous season counterparts, Reno & Rude, and targeted with a Yield or U-Turn and sent packing because of it, rounding out the Elimination Station teams. Fine with me. I'm about the only person I know who can't stand Cloud, though I do like Aeris.

8. Kiros & Ward: I think they'll scrape by a few eliminations, maybe even winning a leg on the way, on sheer will and if they don't run into too many tasks that involve them communicating with locals, since Ward won't be able to. They'll be this season's "inspirational" team (see: Charla & Mirna both times, Peter & Sarah, Margie & Luke, and Zev & Justin), and those teams never win (though Charla & Mirna and Margie & Luke each did come close). But after all of the dead weight gets eliminated, they'll be next, falling out in eighth place. They'll work well together, for sure, but I think they'll go out in eighth place.

9. Cid & Hilda: Now that I've gotten the unknowns out of the way, it's time to look at the knowns. I don't see this team doing so hot. They'll both be very good at the mental tasks, but due to their old age, the physical ones could do them in quickly. The oldster teams rarely go far (except for Teri & Ian, Meredith & Gretchen, and Fran & Barry). I don't think they'll be any exception, either.

10. Setzer & Daryl: I am absolutely against this pairing because Daryl's SUCH an unknown, even though I know Setzer well (and knowing him is the only reason I didn't place them in twelfth place). It still boggles the mind that Bob's going to use them, anyway, even though -- hello! -- she's technically dead. They might have lots of travel experience, which could serve them well, but if they play the odds too many times, I see them barreling right out of the race in tenth place.

11. Celia & Lede: I normally root for women's teams on principle, but I do not know these two since I haven't played Tactics and will be fair by placing them low pre-race. My ranking might increase depending on the first leg, but we'll see. But if they're assassins and have good teamwork, then I do have some faith in them for going far. Still, again, until I actually see them in action, this is where I'll place them: eleventh place and the second team gone, just above the team I pegged for twelfth place.

12. Malak & Rafa: I have to put any unknowns (I've never played Tactics and will never play it unless I ever decide to learn how, which is doubtful) on the bottom just because I don't know much about them at all. But everything Fleck mentioned about them doesn't give me much hope that they'll do well. But at the same time, on the real show, of the five brother/sister teams to go on the show, two have won (Nick & Starr, Tammy & Victor), one has at least made the F3 (Blake & Paige), one at least made it to sixth place (Azaria & Hendekea), and only one of them left early (Tramel & Talicia). So with a track record that good, it's not out of the realm of possibility that these two will also do well. Still, I'll wait till the first episode goes up to really decide.

. . . But these are just my rankings, which are subject to change episode-to-episode. How about everyone else's?

[Bob]

Just as a note, more is known about Daryl than Celia, Lede, Godo, and probably Hilda, just to mention some other contestants of this season. Probably more than others like Lucil and Elma, too, since they're not really developed as much beyond soldiers. Daryl's development is 100% personality. She's actually one of the easier ones to write thus far because of it.

Also, since you're getting technical about Irvine not being a SeeD, despite his close association to SeeDs, I'll get technical and remind you that Daryl is not officially dead. She didn't show up to the meeting place and the wreckage of the Falcon was found a year later, but nooooo Daryl. It's only assumed she died, but I believe Setzer might even make mention to the tomb and how she isn't buried there. It's more a memorial to her. These facts and more are how the "Gogo is Daryl" theory got started.

[countlieberkuhn]

In addition to the Irvine not being a SeeD thing, he is for all intents and purposes a SeeD. He's been trained at a garden, and is regarded to be the best sharpshooter at Galbadia garden, and possibly in all of the gardens. Rather like Seifer, the only thing keeping him from being officially a SeeD is that he hasn't passed the exam. Whether it's due to failure or simply not taking it yet, I don't know, but it's a mere technicality.

Irvine's inability to handle pressure might come up, although to be fair he only got the jitters because he was going to be responsible for killing one of the most powerful people in the world, who incidentally was his own matron. Most of the time he handles everything fine, such as in the prison shortly afterwards where he pretty much holds off all the guards by himself for awhile without breaking a sweat. That is of course assuming that we're not going with the 'Squall's comatose imagination' theory!

Speaking of theories, I hadn't heard the Daryl is Gogo one!

Also, when has death stopped Bob? Jecht and Auron are both dead technically

[Bob]

Yeah, I already made that point about Irvine getting the jitters because he was killing his matron in another thread.

And also, yes, death does not stop me. A good portion of my cast dies early, such as President Shinra. I know Dale is making the claim because Daryl MIGHT be dead before the events of the game, which is kinda different, so I understand what he means, but a lot of my time lines don't make sense. In most cases, I assume the events of a game have happened, as people often make reference to events in their games, but if that happened, then all those people should be dead, so none of it makes sense. As Count said, "when has death stopped [me]?"

The Daryl is Gogo stuff is at least enough to make you say "hmm, that's true!" Some of it stems from nobody knowing if Gogo is a boy or girl and not knowing anything about identity (since in most stories, a "mysterious identity" typically turns out to be somebody you have met in the story), then some comes from the fact that you get Gogo on Triangle Island, which is either where the ship crashed or where she was supposed to meet Setzer *can't remember but thinks the former* and then a lot more. I knew the theory when the internet wasn't all that popular, so it's been around for ages.

[Fleck]

AURON NEVER DIES!

[Fleck]

And yes, I had forgotten that Galbadia Garden does not technically graduate SeeDs (nor does Trabia, which is why Selphie transferred). But really, it's splitting hairs here. Both are military training schools, the major differences being that Balamb is the only Garden that junctions GFs and all their alumni are called "SeeDs." Otherwise, the three Gardens are closely linked politically, socially, and academically. Saying that Irvine is nothing like a SeeD is like saying that he isn't really a college student because he goes to community college while everyone else goes to State.

[Dale]

Aug 22, 2010 17:48:21 GMT -8 countlieberkuhn said:

In addition to the Irvine not being a SeeD thing, he is for all intents and purposes a SeeD. He's been trained at a garden, and is regarded to be the best sharpshooter at Galbadia garden, and possibly in all of the gardens. Rather like Seifer, the only thing keeping him from being officially a SeeD is that he hasn't passed the exam. Whether it's due to failure or simply not taking it yet, I don't know, but it's a mere technicality.

Which is why I say he's NOT a SeeD. I go by technicalities here, and technically, he's not one.

God, you people are so clueless sometimes.

[Bob]

And technically, Daryl was never said to be dead. But you skimmed over that, Mr. Clueful.

And don't call God clueless.

[countlieberkuhn]

Technicalities aside, the two should be a decent team anyway, although their youth might hold them back a bit. Neither are exactly the careful type. Remember Selphie's attempt to stop the missiles?

"I don't know which button stops the countdown, SO I'LL PRESS ALL OF THEM!"

[Bob]

Heh, she IS a brilliant one. This is true. But hey, it worked! Proving Galbadia's Missile Systems SUCK.