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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 24, 2009 16:14:32 GMT -8
Also Bob, this whole thing should requre very little effort on your part, you'll be glad to hear! The CPP for the blitz program seems pretty simple to create characters and new teams, and deal with stats and everything, and I thinkI can probably handle this whole blitzball thing myself, so long as the program doesn't do something weird! Of course I won't change the way the blitzball program itself runs, but it should still be good! It seemed pretty fair before.
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Post by seflask on Jun 24, 2009 16:24:37 GMT -8
Locke would like to join Laguna's team. Faris and Cid H. are also intersted in playing.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 24, 2009 16:46:34 GMT -8
Excellent. I'm hoping that nearly every played character will get involved in this in some way!
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Post by Bob on Jun 24, 2009 17:28:22 GMT -8
Heh, well I do plan to recreate blitzball someday, but I'm still working out the zillions of kinks in my Arena fight... I've found several errors, but there're still a couple that are absolutely killer.
I think for blitzball, it'd be neat to have a few abilities, but that really might require reworking the whole thing, so maybe not. I think we'll play it by ear for now. If this tourney goes off well by just fixing stats, then we'll call it all good though...
OR (just thought of this now, it might be dumb, but we'll see), I could probably (easily) code a team bonus that could like, give a TEAM a specific stat bonus, instead of the 30 points thing... So like, just for playing for the Dark Knights, each person gets a +3 shot bonus during the game, whereas playing for Jesters gives +2 Pass & +1 Shot... That way each character would retain stats and could be traded, but each team would have a specific... thing that makes them unique.... If that makes sense.
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Post by Bob on Jun 24, 2009 17:31:35 GMT -8
To give coding specifics, it'd look kinda like this:
if (carrier == "[TDK] Cecil") { pass = 7; shot = 1; endurance = 6; block = 10; tackle = 12; goal = 36;
shot += 3; }
That way it's really easy to change the bonus if/when they change teams. So they keep their normal stats, but say now Cecil is traded to a team with a different bonus, he'd become:
if (carrier == "[NEW] Cecil") { pass = 7; shot = 1; endurance = 6; block = 10; tackle = 12; goal = 36;
pass += 2; shot += 1; }
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Post by nobodyspecial on Jun 24, 2009 17:36:49 GMT -8
Unless Amy wants to put Vincent on The Dark Knights, then I'll have Paine replace Irvine on that team. So it'll be LF = Paine RF = Tifa Mid = Noctis RL = Cecil RR = Gabranth G = Kain
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 25, 2009 8:16:50 GMT -8
Bob, I'm really liking that idea! Do you need a line space between the character's stats and then their bonus, or did you just do that to make it easier to get the point across?
But yeah, thats good, i'll probably go with that. I've got most of it figured out, stats and all, but the only thing I'm not sure how to work out with stats is the goalie. Originally I was thinking that the bonus stat pool would be spent on the goalie as well as the rest of his team, but since your +3 stats to all players idea does sound pretty nice, i'll reconsider the goalie method.
I may go with the idea of a static goalie stat (between 15 and 17 standard that could be buffed with a goal+3 stat), but that'd take some of the individuality of goalkeepers away, which is what i'm trying to avoid.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 25, 2009 8:38:03 GMT -8
Also, NS, due to the new arrival of Cecil as a player, you will have to try and speak to him to confirm that he is ok to have Cecil play on your team. At this stage as he is such a new player, it might be best to let you write up his stats for this tournament, unless he really gets into the whole mallboro thing and is prepared to write the stats for the character himself. Teams won't be finalised until around this time next week anyway, so you've got a fair amount of time to contact him about it.
You should be fine anyway - if he turns out to be a dedicated player you won't have a problem, and if he becomes a one-post wonder (I hope not!) then you can treat Cecil like an NPC as before.
Also, to let people know, there will most likely be a stat total of 45 for player charaters, and 40 for NPCs. 1-3 NPCs on a team shouldn't make too much of a difference, but all NPC teams like Kuja's will be statistically disadvantaged, although Kuja WILL have the advantage of being able to design every character himself, so he's not completely screwed in that respect.
I'm hoping those stats will favour player-heavy teams in the tournament, but not too much. We'll have to see how this tournament goes to see if those numbers strike an even balance or not!
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Post by Bob on Jun 25, 2009 11:47:44 GMT -8
The line space isn't needed, I just do it to be distinct. Spacing is only important in coding in an aesthetic sense. The program doesn't care, but if it's hard to read, it's hard to edit...
For stats, 45 and 40 sound like good numbers. But I wouldn't make goalie stats too high. I'd say we should maybe cap all abilities, with "defense" abilities capped slightly lower. My program is pretty compact, so there tend to be defenders during anything, so overall passing, shooting, and endurance should probably be given a slight advantage so that more than just a bunch of ball stealing happens, y'know?
I'm thinking pass, shot, and endurance should be capped at 15, with block, goal, and tackle capped at somewhere from 10-12... Then those will be our base stats and maybe later we'll work on adding EXP and level ups, which can make people exceed the caps.
And even though it was just a number I tossed out, I think 3 is a good number for team bonuses. So any stats can be boosted for a total of 3 stat points. I like this idea because it makes goalie boosts hard to swallow, y'know? You could either give a meaningful stat boost to FIVE people, or just your highly important goalie.... And my two cents: if you do caps like I mentioned, I'd allow the bonuses to push them over the limit. So if your goalie is 10-12 with a +3 goalie stat, then he can now be 13-15...
Oh, and Cecil player messaged me and said that he probably won't be horribly active until Monday. Just FYI.
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Post by nobodyspecial on Jun 25, 2009 13:42:49 GMT -8
Alright well for now I'll assume he'll be on team and then if later he decides against it then s'all good, I'll replace him with Zack or something
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 25, 2009 16:00:09 GMT -8
Alright. Those caps seem decent, but I'd like the margins high enough to make sure everyone won't be too similar either. With the limits too low everyone will have roughly similar stats, rather than having the opportunity to focus on one or two in particular. Shooting is the most important stat to limit though, so that even a maxed out shooter will require some degree of luck to get his shot through, rather than a guaranteed goal each time. It won't be much different than what you suggested though Bob.
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Post by Bob on Jun 25, 2009 16:18:57 GMT -8
Ah, yeah, good point. Lesse, there are what, 7 stats? So an even split would be about... 6 each? But that's assuming people put any points into Goalies (if they aren't goalies).
Know what might be kinda fun to do, though it might be a bit complicated, but if we include INJURIES! ...I'm kinda trying to think of a way to make it useful at all to put stats into Goalies even if people aren't goalies. Cuz the difference between US making stats and FFX making stats is that all of them still had a goalie stat, some just sucked...
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 25, 2009 16:40:56 GMT -8
Very true, although the way that the program is written means some people have some weird goal stats, based on their total stat pool. Was that actually necessary to the code, or was that just a quick way to reference their total stat allocation, since the goal stat wouldn't actually be used by them anyway? If it's the latter, then that keeps things nice and simple!
Injuries could be interesting, but perhaps not for this tournament. I still just want to see if we can create a nice balance between PCs, NPCs, and stat limitations. I do see how you're trying to make other players having goal stats that are useful, and perhaps that would get around the goalie problem to some extent, although its still the hardest thing to work out. It was a lot easier before when we had global stat pools, but harder this time round. The +3 stats idea does help a lot in making teams goalies better at the cost of other bonuses though, and it may well be enough.
The goal stat just needs to be high enough that a +3 bonus would make a significant increase on how many shots were caught, without making shots nearly impossible.
Bob, you understand the program and how the stats are calculated. If we had static goal stat of 17 which could be improved to 20 if all 3 bonus points were put in, with a maximum shot score of 17 as well, would a 17 shot score ever stand a chance of getting through a 20 goal stat? Keeping in mind that there may well be 1 or 2 defenders trying to block the shot as well.
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Post by Bob on Jun 25, 2009 16:50:02 GMT -8
It was just to keep things organized, but in retrospect, I wouldn't do that again. And I think we're going to re-make everybody, so don't worry about any of that.
Regarding the static goalie stat, that was why I was saying that defending stats should be lower. I'd say a shot like that wouldn't have a chance in hell... The numbers are randomized, just like in the Arena fights, but I only randomize by umm... not enough. I'm thinking +/- 20% at BEST, which would mean the goal stat has a slight chance of going from 20 -> 18 and shot going from 17 -> 19, so now factor in the ball movement to the goal (I think it's -1 for each panel it crosses, like blitzball does, only to a lesser degree) and it'd mean that you could only make the shot with no defenders and being on the tile RIGHT by the goal....
I'm really thinking we should just have certain caps. Probably like, 4 points more for shot, pass, and endurance. Maybe max 16 for block, tackle, and goalie, with 20 for shot, pass, and endurance? With the low totals you gave, I think it could work well, since a super-offense with awesome shot and endurance would probably suck at all else, like blocking, tackling, and passing, which means that player DOES have a big downside... I definitely like the totals you picked, and my two cents is those values for caps.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jun 25, 2009 17:18:42 GMT -8
Those caps are sounding good, and I'll probably go with those in the final thing. I think for now we should have a static goal stat, however, since if we allowed everyone to build a goalie, they'd ALL have a maximum goal stat of 16 since they don't need any of the rest, unless they really plan on playing the field in future tournaments.
Perhaps a goal stat of 15, improvable to 18 if you spent all 3 stats on it, would be best for now. Hopefully if defenders are involved which they most likely would be, that'd be low enough to actually make goals possible. 15 proooobably wouldn't be too low that people who choose to put their +3 stats elsewhere wouldn't be letting all goals in either. Then again, would a theoretical 18 be too high for people who didn't have a shot stat practically reaching the limit? I don't want to end up with the only goal scorers being people with shot stats of 20, or it'd defeat the object of variation and individuality a bit.
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