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Post by Fleck on Dec 8, 2012 1:33:30 GMT -8
Chapter 5 discussion.
I'll admit, the plot loses some momentum here, after building up the sorceress and all that stuff from Chapter 4. And Zell hasn't quite clicked for me the way a lot of other characters have. I've still got some moments in this chapter that I feel are quintessential Zell, and I like them a lot, but unfortunately Zell is not much of a plot-mover and his chapter doesn't do much to advance the story. And the parts of this story where things DO advance are largely out of his control. I can tell you, having written more Zell chapters, that he becomes more interesting later on in the story. But chapter 5 is a necessary evil, as a couple of important things happen, most notably the ending sequence.
Even though Zell has probably the least to say right now of any of my cast, his chapter has somehow emerged as the longest thus far. And this is even after pruning off a couple of scenes. But I wanted to establish his relationship with Ami (the Library Girl with Pigtails), establish Zell's character, move him through his exams, AND have that ending sequence, so naturally things ran a bit long.
I think, if I was given the choice, I would have written out Ami from the story. She's only a small side quest after all, and she's never officially given a name (I named her "Ami" after the song from the FF8 soundtrack. I thought it was appropriate, for reasons I'll explain when I go back and start explaining my theming and whatnot). And I nixed Angelo, so Ami should have been easy to cut. But she does appear in the ending credits, and it felt mean to bump off Zell's potential romance story (although it now brings us to three total romance stories, which is probably two too many). Also Ami provides a good counterpoint to Zell's rashness and poor brain-workings. Zell doesn't come up with a lot of ideas on his own, and it's useful to have a character like Ami around to kind of guide him through things. So she stays.
Xu's weapon specialty is never officially given either, but she seemed like a hand-to-hand girl to me. She strikes me as very practical, and what's more practical than your fists? Also her weapon specialty is going to become important a few chapters from now.
This is really the end of the Garden-centric chapters. Next up we have our first chapter to take place outside the Garden, and the next five chapters focus much more on the overall plot of the world, rather than just the everyday going-ons of SeeD. Stick with it, it's about to take off.
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Post by Bob on Jan 1, 2013 13:13:28 GMT -8
Not much to say about Chapter 5 that you didn't say in your post up there. The chapter was far less climactic than previous ones, but I enjoyed the ending for sure. I'm curious to see how necessary this necessary evil is, so I giveth thee the benefit of the doubt.
I think my favorite part, aside from the interesting plot development at the end, was the fact that Zell spoke his mind, unlike Squall. I liked the (Huh?) "Huh?" kinda stuff. Zell doesn't have much filter, which is...well, it's Zell. Mr. Blurt-Out-SeeD-Connections-On-Camera has no filter.
Continuing to be interested, but it was not my favorite chapter. I do look forward to Dax though. He seems like an interesting character that might be the next Seifer in Balamb.
Ending is awesome though. Any reason for the possibly new sorceress being named Ciel?
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 1, 2013 22:02:24 GMT -8
Finally caught up with these! I'm glad to see the development of actual crises and a plot now, and something that has actual weight considering the Garden had pretty much based its new administrative infrastructure on the assumption that there are no more sorceresses left to fight. Only Rinoa, who is firmly on their side for as long as she is in control of her own mind, which until now wasn't anything to worry about.
I'm also really digging the Timber rebellion thing. With all of the things that happen in FF8, many lesser plot points get unresolved, and the Timber occupation was never really anything more than a reason to get Rinoa involved with the SeeDs. And with a dozen or so potential Sorceresses being dotted around the world now, it's quite possible that Galbadia might be able to find a Sorceress of their own to combat Ciel with. As an aside, are we to assume that in Rinoa's case, absorbing the Sorceress made her more powerful?
I don't mind Ami being in the story, particularly if Zell is going to find himself with only Quistis and Xu for company otherwise. While he gets along with them fine, both are extremely professional and his superiors (Xu is debatable), whereas Zell is more carefree. Ami could work as a good way to allow Zell to exposit his thoughts, as she's less likely to judge him, at least on professional terms.
Keep developing the world, and explaining more about it all. There's a ton of things about FF8 that are almost impossible to discover without finding it out on the Wiki. For example, I just read that the radio blackout that is resolved when Dollet tower is fixed was caused by Laguna launching the stasis prison with Adel inside into space, as it emitted waves that completely blocked out all radio waves around the world for 17 years, like some kind of EMP radiation. I don't remember this being explained in the game, but then it was a long time ago...
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Post by Fleck on Jan 1, 2013 22:30:05 GMT -8
Ending is awesome though. Any reason for the possibly new sorceress being named Ciel? Actually, since you bring this up, I ought to take a moment to tip my hat to Count, who was the first to point out to me that all (or just about all) of the characters have distinctly European names. After this revelation, I went through and changed a bunch of names to fit the style. When I need a new name, I just go to babynames.com and sort by French or Italian names and pick out the ones that seem to fit in the FF8 universe. Thanks, Count! Ciel jumped out at me mostly because I like the way it looks and sounds, but also, upon further research, I discovered that Ciel is the name of a minor character in Final Fantasy Unlimited. So I like the name, and it has a history in the FF universe. As an aside, are we to assume that in Rinoa's case, absorbing the Sorceress made her more powerful? ... Keep developing the world, and explaining more about it all. There's a ton of things about FF8 that are almost impossible to discover without finding it out on the Wiki. For example, I just read that the radio blackout that is resolved when Dollet tower is fixed was caused by Laguna launching the stasis prison with Adel inside into space, as it emitted waves that completely blocked out all radio waves around the world for 17 years, like some kind of EMP radiation. I don't remember this being explained in the game, but then it was a long time ago... As for your question, the answer is a definitive no, although there are some in the FF8 universe who believe that is true (more on that in future chapters). The reason a sorceress' powers can't compound is because, with all this time-travel mucking around, it'd create an infinite power loop. Remember that Ultimecia dies after passing her powers to Edea. Edea then passes her powers to Rinoa, and, presumably at some point in the future, Rinoa's powers would end up in Ultimecia again. If they compounded each time, you'd end up with an infinitely powerful Ultimecia passing her powers to Edea/Rinoa and making them infinitely powerful. It'd break the plot. You could argue that time is fixed and that the time loop isn't a true loop, but that is a really complicated argument and not something I want to spend a lot of time explaining in Future Bound. So for simplicity and for the sake of the plot, sorceress powers do not compound. But you are hovering on the edge of a HUGE plot point in FB And as for your statement, yeah, that's really important. I go into it more soon, but the world is just now finally emerging from nearly two decades of radio blackout. More on that soon. And thanks for reading, both of ya'll!
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 2, 2013 13:38:02 GMT -8
Woo! Europe represent! No love for German names on babynames.com? I guess German names typically don't sound as poetic as French or Italian though.
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Post by Fleck on Jan 2, 2013 22:48:40 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm going for more poetic names. I can sort by German names, but they all sound either very common (in our world) or very difficult to read/pronounce. French and Italian, however, sound more exotic without being unpronounceable.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 3, 2013 2:35:03 GMT -8
The true quality of a German name is determined by how many hairballs you can cough up while saying it.
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Post by Fleck on Jan 10, 2013 1:30:01 GMT -8
Chapter 6 discussion. And we finally get to meet Seifer, and spend some time out of Garden! Despite being hyped up as "Squall's Rival" all through FF8, Seifer never really becomes anything more than a sub-boss and a nuisance throughout the game. I really wanted to change that and make him not only a more prominent character, but a deeper one as well. Seifer's motivations are seemingly random and pointless in the game, so part of my challenge is to not only provide a model of Seifer that makes sense on its own, but to have Seifer express ideas and concepts that retroactively explain his actions in the game. Chapter 6, on its own, doesn't explain the whole of his character, but I hope he makes more sense and seems more human than the game makes him out to be. I've used symbolism in other chapters before, but Seifer's introduction chapter is probably the most symbolism-laden of any so far. The symbolism in this chapter, in case it wasn't obvious, was fire and water. Fire is brought up a lot when talking about Seifer (and in his actions and behaviors). The fact that the chapter starts in the fire cavern is no idle coincidence either. Also, the things Seifer hates/fights against use water symbolism, in contrast to Seifer's fire. Balamb is frequently described in terms of the ocean, and the salt air, and the I use watery adjectives and verbs to describe the movements and behaviors of the G-Soldiers. I don't wanna talk TOO much about Seifer's character just yet, since more will be revealed in later chapters. But I mean, you gotta admit, a Phoenix is the ultimate symbol of Seifer's character. How many times does he get his ass thoroughly beaten, only to rise once more from the ashes? It seemed to me that it would be very Seifer-ish for him to empathize with a phoenix. When Seifer looks back at his past deeds, he doesn't see the string of failures and defeats, he sees how many times he has risen up again, despite the odds. Seifer, despite being a bastard, is an optimist. Chapter Trivia: The title "one step closer" comes from the Seifer quote: "I love battles. I fear nothing. The way I look at it, as long as you make it out of a battle alive, you're one step closer to fulfilling your dream." I think that quote is quintessential Seifer. He doesn't say "as long as you WIN the battle," he only makes mention of surviving it. That goes a long way towards showing his character. I go a little further by emphasizing the end of Chapter 6, showing that even though Seifer is once again beaten soundly, he's still holding his head up high and clinging tightly to his arrogance. The way he sees it, he survived, so he's one step closer to his dream. Originally, the title was going to be "Fire Cross," in reference to Seifer's limit break, but I decided to stick exclusively with in-game quotes. Also "One Step Closer" was too perfect to be ignored. Raijin's super jump is mostly an invention of mine, but it's inspired by his in-combat behavior. While in battle, most characters run all the way up to their enemies (Zell gets a running start, then jumps), Raijin goes from almost a standstill right up to his enemies in an impressive and inhuman leap. I expanded on that to make it part of his combat style, and also used a loose definition of the Float spell to help the duo escape certain doom. Fujin's weapon is never officially named or described, but FF Wiki compares it to a chakram, and after seeing pictures of a chakram, I'd have to agree that's what it most resembles. I had a lot of fun with this chapter, and I'm looking forward to more adventures with Seifer. Hope you guys liked this as much as I did.
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Post by Bob on Jan 13, 2013 10:10:05 GMT -8
I liked it. I was, in a way, disappointed that this chapter didn't really build on the plot except to say "Galbadia REALLY wants the sorceress found," but I thought Seifer's little side project was a satisfying distraction.
For some reason, I'm not a huge fan of combat scenes, which this episode had in large quantities. I think I enjoyed the beginning more when they're just scavenging. That being said, I really like the way you put video game style to some sort of logic or science or something. Basically, I like the way you perceive junctioned magic and gunblade function.
Y'know, I think it's just because we're watching Lost right now (about halfway through season three now...there's nothing else to watch, really), but Seifer REALLY reminds me of Sawyer. Mostly in his retorts, but also in his personality that is more a front that everybody sees as harsh, but really he's making himself an enemy to fix situations. The "I don't care about me, I just care that everything works out" mentality.
I'm glad to see Fujin and Raijin are portrayed similarly to how I portray them in AFFR and such. Always good when my incarnations are perceived similarly to others.
Anyway, in summation, I enjoyed the chapter, but it just makes me crave chapters that get a little more directly involved with the SeeD plot that's been building for five chapters.
POST MORE, WHORE!
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Post by Fleck on Jan 13, 2013 13:23:46 GMT -8
Chapter 6 is a lot of setup, I'll admit. But I'm getting just BUTTLOADS of dramatic irony because of the Seifer chapter, so it's a setup chapter that definitely has been paying dividends for me in future chapters.
And I never watched enough Lost (and don't remember enough) to know if the Sawyer comparison is apt. You'll see more of Seifer's behavior later in the story, and I'm curious to know if you'll still make that comparison later. From what I remember, Sawyer is a good guy pretending to be a bad guy, which isn't how I'd describe Seifer. I'd say more or less that Seifer defies easy categorization. To say "Seifer is a bad guy" is wrong, but it's also wrong to say "Seifer is a good guy." He's got a lot going on, and good/bad aren't always so clear with him.
And thanks for reading. Glad you liked it. I'll be posting more soon!
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Post by Fleck on Jan 24, 2013 22:47:05 GMT -8
Chapter 7 discussion.
In which I, for the first time, am able to directly point out that the characters in FF8 are kinda stupid. I mean, really. Telling the General of the Galbadian military that you are aligned with his enemies? Squall, you silly, silly boy. Look up any Let's Play of FF8 and go to the scene in Caraway's mansion, just before he takes them all to start the mission. Squall flaps his gums like Zell and reveals way too much information, and totally irrelevant information as well.
And don't think that this is the end of me bringing up the mistakes of the past. Pretty much everyone in the game has crimes to atone for, and I SHALL RUB THEIR NOSES IN IT! Bad Squall! Look what you did! You compromised the security of Garden! Shame!
Anyway, this is a really plotty, really talky chapter. I'm sure some writing coach somewhere will tell me that this is all wrong and that I'm dumping exposition in the wrong way, but really, I don't see any other way to do it. Hopefully my dialog is compelling enough that you'll forgive the fact that I use a shitton of it in this chapter.
Chapter Trivia:
Like I mentioned in the main Future Bound thread, this chapter has been the most frequently rewritten chapter in quite a while. As other chapters around it morphed and changed (and with the complete omission of chapter 8), Chapter 7 has had to change itself a lot to match. Pretty much the only constant has been Quistis' conversation with Caraway. Everything else has emerged in more recent drafts.
As for the HD cables, I'm really extrapolating a lot from very little information. From what I've been able to find, there's no precedence for video conferencing using HD cables, but then again, I didn't find anything that said it was impossible either. But given that radio communications were down at the start of the game, I assume that HD cables are now the primary form of communications in FF8's world, and I assume they can do more than just send emails.
The eliminated chapter trivia:
I scrapped the former chapter 8, and moved all the other chapters up one space. What used to be Chapter 8 was going to be a Zell chapter, wherein he and Nida go to Balamb to do some reconnaissance on the Galbadians. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it was kind of dumb. I'm trying my hardest to make sure that character motivations are consistent and logical, and the entire chapter kept falling apart no matter what I did.
I couldn't decide whether or not the Galbadians would care if Zell and Nida checked them out (after all, Caraway is using force to intimidate Garden; why would he be opposed to allowing them to see just how much force?). I couldn't figure out why they would send Zell, of all people, but I had to send either him or Quistis, and she just had a chapter. It was just, everything about it didn't make sense. The only way I could MAKE it make sense was to remove it entirely.
Anyway, after having not made an appearance since Chapter 3, Selphie finally returns for Chapter 8! It's going to be the last introductory chapter, as she is the last of the seven perspectives I'm going to use. From here, the story is going to bounce back and forth between the main six and Seifer. Hope to see you there!
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Post by Fleck on Feb 4, 2013 1:33:50 GMT -8
Chapter 8 discussion.
So.... Hi.
Lemme rant for a second. I don't like writing as Irvine and Selphie because their established relationship makes no goddamn sense to me. Let's go over the facts.
Irvine is introduced to the party. He's a hunky chunk of man, but he hits on literally every girl in the party (he may not have hit on Quistis, but he probably did), then whines about being a loner. Every guy in the party is annoyed by him, and every girl is creeped out by him. Understandable.
Then we get into all the amnesia crap. Turns out, they all went to the same orphanage. Okay. Irvine also reveals that child Irvine had a crush on child Selphie (he calls her "special"). And we are led to believe that this is the basis for Irvine's attraction to her.
At this point, things still make sense. Okay, Irvine's been carrying this torch since he was a kid, and he feels a connection to her. Fine. But their actions don't make any sense. Why would Selphie give a shit about him, other than the fact that's he's hot? And if Irvine holds her in special regard, then why does he hit on other women (as shown in the final cutscene)? Was he teasing her? Are they an established couple? Selphie is shown breaking up Irvine and the girls he's hitting on. Is she jealous? A lot is left unexplained, and the core elements of their relationship don't really make sense.
I guess we're meant to believe that fate brought them back together, and therefore it's fate that they be in love. But that's boring as hell to write, and would make me look like a (bigger) hack if I wrote it out like that. But every time I tried to find serious common ground between them, I get slapped in the face.
So I've kinda backed off on their relationship. In Chapter 2 I established that they aren't really sure of where they stand with each other, and Chapter 8 continues this by showing that Selphie is equally confused about her relationship and her feelings towards Irvine. This was the only way I could make sense of their awkward relationship: by rebuilding it from square one.
I'd really hoped to spend more time with them as a couple, but I had a couple of important things I wanted to knock off in this chapter, so I had to remove further character building between them. I really wanted to establish Trabia without being TOO gloomy (or at least showing Selphie's personality in contrast to the gloom). I also wanted to touch on the subject of Trabia's possible MD levels, and I found that Selphie's trip down into the hole did a good job of kinda summarizing the whole trip to Trabia for her. And also I had to do the whole confrontation with Galbadia. So their relationship building was minimized, and I still ended up with the longest chapter yet, just edging out Seifer's chapter by a couple hundred words.
Chapter trivia:
"Tomomi" is the character "Selphie's Friend" from the game. You can meet her in the courtyard, and win the Selphie card from her. Multiple sources tell me that Tomomi means "friend" or "beautiful friend" in Japanese, and I thought it was cute to name "Selphie's Friend" "Friend." The definition/translation may be wrong, but even if it is, I still like the name anyway.
Port and Lank are super ultra minor characters you can meet in the ruins. They are apparently all that remains of Trabia's technical crew.
Yes, I know that Martine was last seen in FH. I have a backstory ready for the next Selphie/Irvine chapter.
Yes, I am planning on explaining how/why Martine used Rinoa's name as the Timber sorceress.
Chapter 9 coming later this month! Thanks for reading!
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Post by Fleck on Feb 13, 2013 0:33:07 GMT -8
Chapter 9 discussion:
For me, this is where the overall plot of the story really starts developing. All the events in Timber and Galbadia are important and all, but this is where I start trying to weave together the loose plot threads left over from the original game and speculate on their meaning. Really, the primary inspiration behind FB to begin with was the sheer number of unexplained events/phenomena left in the game. What's up with Lunatic Pandora? What's up with Ellone? What's up with draw points? What's up, doc? Here's where I start trying to answer those questions. And, to the best of my knowledge, everything I propose is canon (or at least, not forbidden by canon).
Most of the events of the game are given only the most perfunctory explanations, if the game even bothers to address them at all. I hope everyone likes my personal theories as to how all these things can be explained. Don't worry, I don't intend to go TOO crazy and explain everything to the point where there's no more fun/mystery left in the world, but I am trying to make the world feel more complete and functional. It is, after all, a heavily sci-fi based world, and Sci-Fi tends to demand more thorough explanations than fantasy.
Anyway, I know that I dumped almost half a chapter just describing Squall and Rinoa's transit from outside Esthar to the Presidential Palace, but I really wanted to establish the sense of scale and distance. I wanted Esthar to feel remote, so that it's inconvenient for the group to go to Esthar. I don't want them to just pop on over to Esthar whenever they have a minor question. Also, I wanted Esthar itself to feel huge. You get a lot of sweeping, elaborate backdrops in the game, and I felt it would be an injustice to have only a couple lines of exposition like, "Esthar is really big."
The access road and the vehicle entrance in the side are, of course, inventions of my own. Although Esthar really takes its privacy seriously, I figured they'd at least leave some entrances open, just in case. They want to be left alone, but it'd be silly to make it impossible to exit/enter the city.
Also, my description of the presidential palace may not be accurate. You only get to see the outside twice: once when you first visit Esthar, a large golden building can be seen in the background as the team is driving, just before the screen changes. Given that the next screen shows them in front of a massive golden building that is the Presidential Palace, I assumed that the building in the background and the Palace were the same thing. I may be wrong, especially considering that in the world map, the palace is depicted as gray. I figured that world map images were not accurate representations and ignored the map version.
O Lab has been modified a bit by me, adding some extra rooms beyond where Odine once kept Ellone. I also gave him some more assistants.
His speech was tough to work out. He doesn't have a ton of lines in the game, and what lines he does have are kind of inconsistent. For a long time, I always thought that he referred to himself as "Odine" constantly, but checking the game script showed that he does use "I" and "me" on occasion. Also, he only seems to use "z" at the start of "the" and not at the start of every "th" word. Weird.
Anyway, Odine, with his broken speech, dumps a lot of plot on the characters and the readers, so I can understand if I didn't convey this well enough. There's still a lot of questions that need to be answered, but I hope that the questions I did answer were answered well enough for now. If your reaction to reading this chapter is "HUMPSKJDB" then I failed. If you have any questions, ask away.
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Post by Fleck on Feb 28, 2013 18:38:41 GMT -8
Chapter 10 discussion:
The last 9 chapters of build up finally materialize as the first direct conflict between SeeD and Galbadia. The attack starts kind of abruptly, because, like I said before, I removed what used to be Chapter 8, and that chapter had a little bit of lead-in to the beginning of this chapter. But, after the last Quistis chapter, you already knew that SeeD was going to enter the battle with Timber and belaboring the point wasn't going to help anybody.
Planning this battle and the overall conflict has proven to be ridiculously complicated. I know that the strategy SeeD uses in Chapter 10 is not perfect and if you really think about it, you can probably find flaws, but it's still one of the best options they could have taken. But, since Zell isn't a big strategy guy, it would be out of place for him to spend a lot of time musing over the overall battle strategy, so you aren't going to get many answers until the next Quistis chapter. I wish there were more main characters who weren't so damn silly. Then I could explain the plot better as it develops, instead of always waiting for Quistis and Squall to answer everything.
I also introduce another new character, Mireya. Unlike most of the other characters I've introduced, her name doesn't really have any significance. I just liked how it sounded, and it fit into the world without being samey. Also Dax makes his second appearance, and Ciel returns once more, both of them receiving a bit more characterization.
Chapter trivia:
To prove that I am an idiot manchild, I gave Tomomi a pair of sai as her weapons, Ami a staff, and Mireya a sword. Combine that with Selphie's nunchaku, and you get the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Sort of. Teenage Junctioned Ninja SeeDs.
I don't really like that women are usually relegated as "magic casters" in RPGs, but for Ami I really couldn't imagine anything else fitting her personality. So she's primarily a mage. And a damn good one.
Also, yes, Zell is good with magic too. He's got a lot of hard-hitting spells stocked up. He's still not as good as say, Squall or Rinoa, but he can hold his own with a Thundaga spell. He's still more comfortable using his fists, but when he's pinned down by gunfire, he'll use magic to defend himself.
I also upped the usefulness of the Protect spell, making it deflect bullets for a short period of time. To compensate, I made the spell somewhat rare, and also limited how long the protection lasted. I'm thinking of using Dune's logic, where the shield is more effective against things that move quickly, which would help explain why swords and short-range weapons are still so popular in a world that has access to guns.
It's hard to estimate how large of a city Timber is, but since the city "Timber" and the country "Timber" are used interchangeably, I decided to make it a mid-level city, as it's basically a nation unto itself, surrounded by trees and natural resources.
Also, technically, there are no forests west of Timber, but if we're going by the world map as our standard, then the only forest in the entire country is a little patch next to Obel Lake. And if that's all Timber has left to offer, then there's no point in Galbadia expending so many resources to continue subjugating the country. You'll find I frequently ignore the World Map, as it's really more of a guide than a standard.
Any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Although we're now starting to get to the point where certain questions are going to be uber-spoilery, in which case I'll be coy and scamper away instead of answering.
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Post by Bob on Mar 17, 2013 19:27:40 GMT -8
Finally read it and liked it. I really wish I had more to comment on because I know as a fan fiction author that it's sometimes kinda disheartening to get hit with a "it's good" as opposed to some form of discussion, but it all seems to really work and add up. I still want this to be a game so that I may playeth it.
So, yeah, "it's good."
And because you upload faster than I get around to reading, I continue to always be a chapter behind. *shakes fist*
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