Future Bound Discussion

[Fleck]

Since I'm mostly using the main FB thread as sort of a status update thread, I figured I'd better make a thread where spoilers and questions could be posted without risking someone accidentally hitting a spoiler. That way, if you check the FB thread to see if I've updated something, you won't run across everyone talking in detail about the next chapters.

So if you want to talk about stuff in FB, do it here not there, and if you're not caught up to the current chapter, then don't look at this thread.

Right now there is one thing I want to talk about, since I'm sure eventually one of you will notice it and point it out to me.


The question someone is eventually going to ask is, "Where the hell is Angelo?"

His/her absence (FF Wiki says that Angelo is technically a girl but they've posted spurious information before, especially concerning FF8) isn't really noticeable in chapter 1, but it will become progressively more obvious as the chapters go on. This isn't an accidental omission of mine, but something I spent quite a lot of time considering.

You see, Angelo really only exists to serve as Rinoa's limit break. Sure, he has a couple of counter attacks and random moves that work outside the context of her limit break, but mostly he's there to make her limit break. He's introduced when Rinoa first meets Squall on the Forest Owls train, then he has a scene at the Lunar Base, then a completely pointless scene before the flower garden scene at Edea's Orphanage, but none of that really matters to the story. If you never use Angelo or learn his abilities or use Rinoa's limit break, he's almost not in the game at all. So it's not a big deal to get rid of him, really, but he IS there, so I can't just kick him out without reason.

Anyway, I'm not going to be focusing on limit breaks in Future Bound. They work in the context of a video game, but when put into a story, they're weird and they break the plot. "Only sorceresses can use magic, but Selphie and Quistis can use magic when they're hurt" doesn't make sense in a story. Also the idea of me typing out, "And then Squall knocked the enemy into the air and slashed him twenty times before landing" seemed more than a little ridiculous to me. So limit breaks aren't going to be a factor.

I considered at least mentioning Angelo, ignoring his use as a limit break and just using him as an ordinary dog, but that doesn't work either. When you think of Angelo as a real dog, everything stops making sense. Where does Angelo go when Rinoa isn't using him? And furthermore, I could never find a way to justify having Rinoa physically bring her dog into dangerous situations (even though, according to FF8, she technically does). The alternative is to make up some weird excuse about Rinoa having the ability to teleport her dog or something, but that's still dumb. Rinoa has the ability to teleport... so she summons her dog?

And then finally I thought of just mentioning Angelo and then leaving him behind in some corner and never mentioning him again, but that's almost animal abuse, doesn't fit Rinoa's character (since, in the game, she takes him everywhere), and seems pointless. So I decided not to mention him at all.

Sorry, dog-lovers. No Angelo.

[countlieberkuhn]

Maybe he could be hanging out in the White SeeD Ship, or given a new home in Timber, because the Garden staff were like 'fuck NO! We ain't havin' no mutts in our Garden! We only let you get away with it before because we were in a goddamn WAR at the time!'

Because that's how Garden faculty speak.

[Fleck]

Heh, still wouldn't work, because there's no good reason for Rinoa to give him up. I mean she took this dog INTO SPACE and also TIME TRAVELING. If she's willing to do that, then I don't think I'll ever come up with a reason for her to send him away.

Actually, it's kind of amusing how they have a cutscene showing Angelo being left behind when Squall and Rinoa go into space, yet he still shows up on the Ragnarok. Mothufuggin' dog teleports.

[countlieberkuhn]

I'd forgotten that XD good point!

[Fleck]

Chapter 2 discussion.

So yeah, I hope you weren't disappointed by this chapter. I know that standard fanfiction rules dictate that I should have had three major battles, two characters deaths, and a demonic pregnancy by now, but I'm operating by Big Boy pacing, which means a longer introduction (and fewer pregnancies).

Like I said, an entire plotline was dropped from this chapter when I realized that it didn't work and didn't make sense at all, so I had to make a new plan to fill the void, which is one major reason this chapter had horrible, horrible birthing pains. The other reason being that Selphie and Irvine's relationship is friggin complicated. Well, maybe not the established canon of their relationship, but my interpretation of it is. I know I talked about their character dynamics before, and you guys had a lukewarm response to my outlook (I have since revised my outlook, and you'll see that in the coming chapters), but the fact remains that either Irvine and Selphie are impossibly stupid, or have a very precarious and complicated relationship. I hate writing stupid characters, so I went with option B.

A lot of my efforts was spent trying to elaborate on this complex relationship, and paragraphs and paragraphs and pages and pages were spent with Irvine musing about their relationship, and then I realized... wait... Squall is my muser. He's the one who overthinks everything. So I chopped out a lot of the emo whining and left more of an impression of their relationship. Overall, it's much, much better, but I still don't feel 100% confident of it. So I wouldn't be surprised if any of you disliked this chapter.

Pointless trivia about this chapter: in almost all my previous outlines of this story, Chapter 1 was the Prologue and what is now Chapter 2 was the first chapter. For various reasons I changed this, but I think Chapter 2 still has a very Chapter 1 feel to it, since this is really where the plot begins to take motion. Squall's musing in the previous chapter was mostly just to reestablish the setting and get things in place. Now things are (slowly) starting to move forward.

And yes, Selphie does have a distinct reason for wanting to go back to Trabia, but it'll be explained later. Irvine doesn't ask questions about Selphie's motives, so I only spent, I think, less than a paragraph talking about it. Don't worry, I have a plan.

Anyway, hope you liked it. I'm closer to getting into the proper rhythm now, so Chapter 3 should be up with less delay than Chapters 1 and 2. Thanks for reading.

[Bob]

MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER TWO! ....COMING TOMORROW MORNING!

Sorry, work was killing me the last week and a half or so. Kinda social life, too, I suppose. More like, I had things to do besides work, so add that to a busy work-life and I'm screwed.....also Bloons 5. Shh.

But yeah, got sidetracked and now am going to bed. My thoughts will be more betterer in the morning. TO BE CONTINUED!

[Fleck]

Oh you are SUCH a tease.

"Gonna have a discussion in the other thread!"
*Other Thread*
"TOMORROW LOL!"

And what the hell is this about a "social life?" Don't make me come to California and kill everyone you talk to. Our agreement specifically allows for some internet friends and one (1) wife. If I find you've been in violation of our terms... oh man...

[Bob]

Hey now. It was the one wife that distracted me! By social life, I meant real life. Teaching. Planning. All that.

BUT NOW! MY THOUGHTS!

I have good reviews and bad reviews.

First of all, I love switching to Irvine's perspective. People have different opinions of FF8, but I think everybody agrees that FF8 was too much Squall and too little everybody else, so I like seeing a new character leading. Personally, I'm kind of hoping the series goes Lost style and has a new lead character every chapter. Of course, like Lost, it'd repeat on the main-er characters more often, but still, Bob <3's character variety.

Into the episode! The beginning, I gotta admit, I didn't care for. I think it was just too long. By beginning, I mostly mean the training facility stuff. I like the portrayal of how GF abilities work, but the whole training facility scene seemed kind of pointless and for a pointless-seeming scene, it went on a long time in fair detail. It wasn't a BAD scene, it just scared me because of what I'd said about the first chapter, which was that it needed to find a point and quickly to separate it from the average fan fic. The whole training facility scene, complete with Irvine hitting on two random hotties, felt like something I could find on another site. But again, the junction idea was neat, as was Irvine not shooting the Grat with civilians behind it.

Once Cid's announcement was made, I started to really enjoy the episode. I liked hearing Irvine and Selphie's concerns for the possible disbanding of SeeD and their reasons for such. It was where I really started to appreciate a change in perspective because it was from characters that weren't part of the announcement. It was nice to be part of the crowd perspective of it all.

So despite not liking the first third of it or so, I will give a good compliment about the rest and say that it's really starting to feel like a true sequel to FF8. Even the training facility scene that I didn't care for had an atmosphere of "I could be playing this as FF8-2." The direction seems good. I think it's kind of reminding me of "FF4: The After Years" because it follows different main characters and they're all going to be separated and have their own separate segments. I liked that aspect of FF4: AY because it meant that the super-buff characters could still be super-buff (unlike FFX-2), but it's still going to separate them and maybe work with less-developed characters and therefore still have some challenge.

But yeah, I'm hoping the next episode stars a new character and that it'll continue to pick up where the last episode left off. I really like when stories build from multiple perspectives and still make progress in a global plot. Sometimes multiple perspectives can drag, but if it continues to move forward, it could be awesome.

[Fleck]

That's a better review than I was expecting, honestly. I was afraid you would have found the whole chapter boring, with the first 1/3 being the most boring part. I considered dropping the training center scene, or at least shortening it, but it's too important for establishing Irvine/Selphie and their relationship. The alternative is to just have a really quick scene, then jump right into the announcement, and that doesn't really work. I can promise that the story IS going to pick up from here, but I can also promise that there will be more character-scenes, especially in the first 9 chapters.

And yeah, there will be cycling perspectives. And that's kinda sorta one of the reasons I kept in the training center: I wanted to show what some characters were up to when they weren't around Squall.

Anyway, thanks for reviewing/reading! I'm trying to get Chapter 3 up in the next week or so. If you can just bear with me until then, I promise there's a plot further down the road. Chapters 3/4 are when things finally start happening, so stay tuned!

[countlieberkuhn]

Okay, my schedule's settled down a bit now and i'm back into a more standard uni schedule now, so more Count for everyone! yay!

As for this chapter, I enjoyed it. Admittedly the first part was maybe a tiny bit too long, but I did think it was very well written and that kept my interest even though little was happening in that segment. It also helps that I once had a girlfriend very much like Selphie, who I was with for almost 2 years. Cheerful, energetic, and had an almost childlike innocence to her, despite being quite mature beneath the surface. She's 22 now, and still acts like that. She was also difficult to understand a lot of the time, because her idea of a good time was unconventional, and would always want to do things that were fun rather than romantic. And I think you've managed to capture quite well how someone like that acts, and how it's kinda difficult to know how to handle them sometimes. If it helps with character profiling in the plot, the girl I was with didn't express any sexual interest until we'd been together for over a year, and she was 17 when she did (I was 19). Probably a combination of wanting to be really comfortable with me, as well as getting a bit older to boot. A year makes a big difference at that age!

Like Bob, I'd like to see some other perspectives besides just Squall, so this was a good start in that regard. This is especially true if the characters are being split up, like it seems they will be with Irvine and Selphie going to Trabia. I like books that have stories told from multiple perspectives, with all the people and plot strands merging into a big story climax, as long as I can follow them. I think three is a magic number here - any more than that and it can be hard to remember where each plot thread left off when you return to it. At least to begin with.

The reveal from Cid was less mindblowing than I had expected, as I don't think it'll have any major implications for most SeeD members. So I'm hoping that it'll pan out into something more epic as the story progresses! Keep it up! Now I'm off to read AFFR!

[Fleck]

Oct 4, 2012 11:19:52 GMT -8 countlieberkuhn said:

... I once had a girlfriend ...

Okay, I'm being a little melodramatic, since I too, once had a girlfriend. But anyway, I'm glad I've still been able to capture a piece of that feeling, despite my relative inexperience in the situation.

Overall, I feel I got off lucky with this chapter, considering what an unmitigated disaster it was shaping up to be, before I got the ol' Editing Axe and went crazy on it.

Thanks for reading and discussing! I'll be back at work on Chapter 3 tonight.

[Fleck]

After all the hair-tearing and emo-levels of self-loathing that was the writing process of Chapter 2, Chapter 3 came out quite nice and easy. Unfortunately, I'll be the first to admit that it's a little dry. Okay, a lot dry. And now that we're working on the third chapter, that's becoming less and less forgivable. Hopefully you guys are still interested in reading more, because Chapter 4 is where I start redeeming myself.

I really see the first 3 chapters as setting up the board. Getting all the pieces in place, establishing the setting, and preparing/foreshadowing crucial plot elements that will come up later in the book. But now the bulk of that is behind us and we can start making headway on the meat of the story.

Anyway, let's talk about Chapter 3. I think anyone who wasn't homeschooled always finds some level of enjoyment from reading stories about school, especially fantastic schools, like Hogwarts or Garden. The idea of a military school in a fantasy setting has always appealed to me, and I must admit that I very much enjoyed wallowing around in the mundane day-to-day-ness of SeeD life. And believe it or not, I actually cut off about 3/4 whole pages from this chapter to try to keep it as lean as possible. I always wished that Garden had played more of a role in FF8's plot, but it kind of gets abandoned (along with everyone not named "Squall" or "Rinoa") after the battle of the gardens. So, in a way, I'm making up for FF8's mishandling of its primary location while also having fun playing around in the setting.

Chapter 3 may be bland, but I do hope that its importance is clear. Future Bound is very much a story of perspectives (Hell, Chapter 1 even opens with Squall's quote about the subject of perspectives), and I felt that it would be wrong of me to not present Garden from as many angles as possible. Chapter 1 shows Squall philosophizing about SeeD's future, and seeing it slowly decaying into an undisciplined mess. Irvine's chapter shows that same Garden, but in a different, more positive light (as he enjoys the freedom from responsibility), while Quistis shows the return to normalcy, and the details of the process of rebuilding SeeD. All of this, I felt, was important to establishing the setting. Without giving too much away, there's a lot that happened in the first three chapters that's going to be very important later on, and it's not just the obvious stuff. I'm sorry it's dull, but, I'll let Claudia explain it:

Hopefully later on, when I start rocking your faces, you'll forgive me for the slow intro. Plus, you have to remember that my outline calls for 60 total chapters, so percentage wise, this is a pretty standard intro.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you guys had as much fun reading about all the little stories and whatnot as I had writing it (I especially like Dogg Eggs. I think I'll congratulate myself for that. Congrats, me. Thank you, me). But if not, one more apology, and a promise that Chapter 4 will get things moving. Hopefully Chapter 4 will grace the internet before the end of the month.

[Fleck]

Chapter 4 discussion

I actually don't have much to say really. If you guys have any questions, then fire away. But otherwise this chapter came out the way I wanted it to, and it's the chapter I have most enjoyed writing since Chapter 1. Writing in the present tense for the flashback sequence was so enjoyable for me. I'm honestly considering using present tense prose for future projects of mine. It just seems to come easier for me.

Anyway, this is the first part of the story where I really start to pose questions that are not immediately answered by the game. Most everything until now has just been an extension of FF8's events, but this is the first time that I'm breaking new ground. However, everything I do is explained and is canon within the logic of FF8. Or, at the very least, nothing in FF8 canon prevents me from doing the things I do.

I hope you guys enjoyed this chapter. I'll get to work on Chapter 5 now.

Pointless trivia about this chapter: the dialog from Rinoa's flashback, at least Laguna and Rinoa's dialog, is word-for-word from the game. I love casting old events in new lights. This won't be the last time I revisit old scenes from new angles.

Also, I hope by now you guys are starting to realize that A: all the chapter titles are quotes from the game and B: all the quotes were made by the person who is the subject of the chapter (i.e. Chapter 1's title is a quote from Squall, Chapter 2's quote is from Irvine, and Chapter 3 is from Quistis). Bonus points shall be awarded for anyone who can tell me when Rinoa said the word "Monster."

[Bob]

I COULD go to icybrian and check the script, but without doing that, I'd guess it's on the train when they see the fake president replaced with the Gerogero.....do I win?

Anyway, finally had the time to read Chapters 3 and 4 (three-day weekend! FINALLY!). I'm diggin' it. Despite the slow intro you mentioned, I think it really started to pick up for me in Chapter 3 as well. That, or it's just because they're the chapters I just read and haven't read the other two in probably about a month.

Quistis was an interesting character to follow. I like that she has some depth to her that was missed entirely in the game. I also enjoy the fact that she changed somewhat throughout the game. She's so backgrounded in the game that it's hard to see progression, but the progression you jump to makes sense as how she'd progress. Especially the bit about being a leader and Squall's natural leadership.

...And Dogg Eggs kinda makes me want to barf. It so sounds like something that a five-year-old would crave.

Without just picking individual scenes in Chapters 3 and 4, I'll just say that I'm very much enjoying it. I like hearing about FF8 elements from a non-confusing-as-shit perspective. And it's very obvious that you've done your homework. Hell if I'd remember that the Ragnarok is still in Lunatic Pandora. I'm really enjoying things like the Timber revolution that eventually become forgotten and how the story thus far avoids quick fixes. It's showing your writing qualities for sure. Things like Quistis thinking about the Lieutenant Commander position and SeeD (and sorceress) needing to stay out of the Timber revolution to avoid starting a war. I think what these two chapters have done is moved the story forward from a quaint story about FF8-2 and really highlighted that FF8-2 COULD exist. There are so many interesting dynamics left in the world and so much fallout that this is not just a fan fic about Squall and Rinoa holding hands (despite...y'know...them holding hands in the story).

I give top kudos for the story's direction. I like the multiple perspectives and the progression of time by referencing past events (like "Irvine and Selphie are in Trabia now").

Also: loved the Kadowaki playing cards scene.

Keep writing, slave! Even if it takes me weeks to get to it, you must continue...or else!

[Fleck]

EEEEEEE!

You read it! You liked it!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

*gets back to work*