Final Fantasy 13-2 Demo

[Bob]

Today the PSN put out the FF13-2 demo. I happened to be on the demo download page, so I found it, downloaded it, and played it. And so begins my....PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT!

BOB'S PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

Final Fantasy 13-2 is EXACTLY what you'd expect. They make some changes for the better, some for the worse. The demo had no story in it, so I can't say much about it. Seems like Serah is hopping through parallel worlds with Noel (pronounced...I can't remember... Knoll, I think? It wasn't No-El like the normal name). I don't know who the hell Noel is, but he's your bestie I guess. There has to be SOME reason Serah isn't hanging with her sister or fiancee. Anyway, I guess something messes with the...TIME SPACE CONTINUUM and Serah and Noel are saving the day. From what I gather, Lightning is doing her own single-player adventure, so Serah and Noel are in one place, Light in another. Do they ever join up? I dunno. Probably not. So...a two-person party? Nope! It's time for a segment called....BULLSHIT THIRD PARTY MEMBER!

BULLSHIT THIRD PARTY MEMBER

Since nobody wants to jump through time with Serah and Noel, they get a third member of the team. Who is it? Why it's...EVERY MONSTER YOU DEFEAT! Yes, the third member of the team is a POKEMON. Sometimes you kill a monster and get a crystal that allows you to use that monster in combat. So in your paradigm menu, you can select these monsters to be in your group. Each monster has distinct roles and you don't have to pick just one. They all share the same life total and..and..I..I don't know if I can make this idea actually sound good. It's terrible. Why not just have a third character? They already made this Noel nimrod, why not just make another character? Total bullshit. Now the good section of the segment: IMPROVEMENTS!

IMPROVEMENTS

Some positive tweaks were made. For instance, no stupid animations for paradigm switches. Much more fluid. Yay. I didn't use accessories, but it looks like they have more of a FF9 system where you get a certain number of points and each one has certain weight to it, so you have to prioritize. I like that kind of system, but dunno if it works well. There are a couple other minor tweaks that are neat, too, but on par with the fluidity of paradigms. More like a patch that FF13 needed, not something to constitute an "OMG THIS GAME IS GREAT." Speaking of OMG greatness, it's time for HOLY @$^# THIS IS STUPID.

HOLY @$^# THIS IS STUPID

Mog. Yes. Mog. There is a moogle, and it's name is Mog. Unique! This thing is ugly and stupid. I'll get to graphics, but first Mog. This thing is TERRIBLE. Another one of those Japanese "isn't this thing kawaii!" usless additions. Frocobo was cute, though sometimes annoying. Mog TALKS. It flies around and sometimes looks like it's humping your leg, but screw all that. IT TALKS. It is SO ANNOYING. I can't describe how much I hate this thing. It single-handedly makes me not want to play this game. Now graphics.

Graphics suck. FF13 had such realistic graphics and if nothing else, the game was damn pretty. FF13 took a step back and went for the cheese factor. If you've played Xenosaga, then it reminds me of that. The graphics aren't BAD, they're just a step in the wrong direction. Less texture and more shininess. Mog is a big-headed lump of smoothness that kinda illustrates my point about graphics. Bad? No, but worse.

CHOCOLINA! If Mog wasn't bad enough, there's also Chocolina. She's your O'aka of the game, I assume, as the traveling merchant. She's annoying and dressed like a slutty chocobo. Can you see where I'm going with this game with annoying things and cheesy characters/graphics?

Yes, it is the second coming of FFX-2. Even the plot seems similar. Somebody mentioned how Sanctum is gone, but there are issues now determining who governs everybody. SOUNDS PRETTY FAMILIAR! It even has MISSIONS. Terrible, horrible missions! Point-filled missions like "find stuff for me!" or "defeat this enemy!" Yay!

Oh, and one last thing: the Crystarium. Maybe I just don't get it, but it was made WORSE. Now you just advance when you get enough CP and have no real options or tracks. You still level up Ravager or Medic or Commando or whatever, but now it's one node and it just wants to know if you want it to be the Commando node, Medic node, etc. Then you hit "level up" points and can unlock bonuses, including such things as "unlock Saboteur."

Pointless mini-games added, but same old game, same old problems. I can't say a ton because it was just a demo, but this game looks like it has NO substance. I don't know if I'll even play the game. It really looks like nothing special. This demo has just confirmed that the sequel trend is not an inverse relationship.

Not Bad Game --> Good Sequel
Yes Game --> Worse Sequel

I figure if FFX is a 9/10 and FFX-2 is a 4.5/10, then since FF13 is a 6/10, FF13-2 will be a 3/10. Decide for yourselves, download and play or just youtube and discuss, but I have only a faint glimmer of hope for this game, and if the demo is a fair indication of the game, then I don't know if I'd even PLAY the game, let alone BUY it.

PS: This demo is bad. Don't demos know that you're supposed to pick a section of the game with some story/action that isn't revealing, but indicates the plot? Also, you're supposed to pick a section of the game that has a bunch of abilities unlocked and over-powered weapons so that people will know what to see in the game EVENTUALLY, not right in the beginning. Start us with some accessories and an assload of abilities unlocked, not just "Cure" for Medics. Let's see the GAME, now how the game STARTS. Ugh.

[Fleck]

...

I don't know why I'm disappointed. I pretty much knew this would happen. Yet still, somehow, I find myself immensely saddened by this. I guess I was hoping that 13-2 would at least follow in the footsteps of X-2 and at least make a pretty awesome combat system. If Bob's assessment it right, then it sounds like all they did is tweak the old system and add a bunch of new crap to it. Lame.

Anyway, I will continue to hoard my copies of old school Final Fantasy games. Squeenix can ruin a lot of things, but they cannot ruin THE PAST! (Although I get the feeling that they are working on a time travel device so that they can do just that).

[Bob]

That was my exact reaction as I played the demo. I was so disappointed, despite knowing that this game was sure to be a disappointment. I only hold onto a tiny bit of hope that the basically-unseen plot is good, but being that there was some mission directory of different locations for Serah and Noel to jump through time to save makes me think it's a purely sandbox, mission-based game.

I think at some point, Squenix made the mistake of thinking that nobody cared about story anymore. Most game companies made this mistake. Sure, a lot of kids just do scene-skip and continue to kill stuff, but games like RPGs are DEPENDENT on a good story. All this game recycling makes me angry. And since Serah is still all skinny and stuff, I'm going to assume she's pregnant, just like Lulu in FFX-2. Just because. TWEEST: Serah's 8.5 months pregnant.

....BE TEA DOUBLE-YOU, Serah's weapon is a bow/arrow AND a sword AND a moogle. Mog somehow transforms into all these things for her. It's such a nice moogle. Seriously, Light's switchblade-gunblade is awesome and kiiind awkward, but I see some practical use for it. Noel is carrying around some sort of fancy ultimate weapon thing that looks bulky for no reason. Doesn't look practical at all. Bow and arrow is not practical in a world with guns. So....just....WHY. FF13-2 seems to be TRYING to say "You know all that shit that people that don't like J-RPGs like Yahtzee make fun of for being so ridiculous? We have BOATLOADS of it!"

[Bob]

HOLY EFF-BOMB I FORGOT TO MENTION SOMETHING HUGE! I will now introduce it in a segment called "HOLY EFF-BOMB SOMETHING HUGE."

HOLY EFF-BOMB SOMETHING HUGE

I offer you a multiple-choice test. Answer honestly, please.

What has the Final Fantasy series needed forever, but they have never directly included:

A) Quick Time Events
B) QTEs, which stands for "Quick Time Events"
C) Wait, didn't they have Quick Time Events already? No? Oh, then those.
D) All of the above
E) A, B, and C...and kind of D.

Hmm....So that's your answer? Well, GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE! Final Fantasy 13-2 has QUICK TIME EVENTS! Yes, it's true! Now, instead of defeating a boss and watching a fun scene and story unfold, you have to be ready for a good old fashioned Quick Time Event! They have some in-battle, too, but I don't mind that quite as much because it's not too terribly different from inputting a combination for an Auron or Zell limit break, basically. But then, the battle ends and I took an enemy down to 0 HP. Then it lets me know a QTE is coming (how nice of them) and wants me to push buttons. Then, a helicopter shoots at the enemy and does him tons of damage and the game is like "Good job, bro! Perfect button pushing!" But...he was dead already. 0 HP. It's like, going hunting and it takes you six hours of waiting, planning, and executing the hunt, but you finally shoot a deer (aww! poor little Bambi!). Then as you're going to claim your dinner (because hunting for sport is the definition of an asshole), some dick with an assault rifle shoots the shit out of your deer so that no meat is usable anymore. And then he's like "Hey, you're welcome, pal!" but all you're thinking is "BAMBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!"

...That analogy got away from me, but point being, what's the point in executing a QTE perfectly when you ALREADY DRAINED SAID ENEMY OF HIS FULL HP? THAT DIDN'T HELP! DIIIIICKS!

[Fleck]

...........

..................

.......................

So, the new seasons of Survivor and Amazing Race are coming out in February.

Yup.

[countlieberkuhn]

Now that I have been alerted to the presence of this game demo, I will download it. I dearly want Bob to be wrong on every level, but damnit man! You argue your points so validly. Very few points to make me think 'well that MIGHT be good and its just not his thing'. Even though I've expected this game to suck for a long time, I will download it.

Then I will play it.

And then I will rant share my thoughts here!

[countlieberkuhn]

Played it now. It... kinda sucks. First off, Mog is as bad as Bob makes him out to be. To be fair I don't know how they could have made a moogle sound anything but retarded when given voice acting, so they really shouldn't have bothered. As far as I can tell, he's just a glorified itemfinder anyway.

I don't have Bob's problem with the graphics. Besides that bloody moogle, everything kinda looks how it did in FF13. The character models look decent, etc. I also liked how the area flowed nicely and had cinematic moments during the exploration to make it a bit more interesting. Also, the fact that you get to speak to a lot of people and overhear chitchat. This was touched on in FF13 at that theme park place, but here it seems to be a more major thing. It makes the world seem a bit more lively at least.

The combat is more or less the same as it's always been, only the encounters are sorta random. You'll be walking around as normal, then suddenly monsters will appear and you can try and get behind them and hit them, causing the battle to begin with a pre-emptive strike. It's got the best of both worlds in that regard - limitless enemies without needing to leave the area and come back, but having a chance to get the upper hand or avoid them entirely. I like that the random encounter aspect has a context within the game - there's a theme of lots of different time lines overlapping (which causes you to fight just the arm of a giant robot at first, as it's the only part that is fully materialised), and as a result monsters from other time lines just 'fall in' to the current time. Unfortunately, if you weren't a fan of the combat system before, you won't be now. The more fluid paradigm shifts are a nice, albeit minor improvement.

As for the monster allies... i'm torn. Bob was right in that it is kinda like pokemon, and i'm not sure how abusable the system is. Certainly when I was fighting the boss at the end, I had a robot thing with TONS of health by pumping it up with growth items (monsters use that as an individual resource instead of crystarium, and it can be bought pretty cheaply too), and this little Cait Sith medic thing. Now, the Cait Sith had shitty hp, so I'd have this ravager/commando/medic paradigm going and wail on the thing, then as it was about to do an attack - which you can see coming as it moves slowly - I'd just switch to a paradigm with the robot thing with all the HP. The monsters have a shared HP pool as Bob said, but they each have individual HP amounts - only the percentage of HP remaining is carried over when you do a paradigm shift to something with a different monster. So there's a lot of potential to abuse this in cases where enemies perform big, slow attacks you can react to. I quite like that each monster is different, although the downside of having lots is that if you invest loads of points into one monster, then find another one that has the same role but does it loads better, it'll be kinda annoying. As Bob said, a proper third party member would ultimately be better.

The maps themselves are thankfully non-linear. That's a big improvement, as it provides a little more exploration. From what I've seen of map pictures, the game's dungeons are more on the level of those in FF12. Which I'm ok with. I also don't mind the missions, as they seem to be short and just give you more things to do in an area without detracting you from your main goal. The rewards seem to be in the form of Crystarium Points for your party members, so there's incentive to do them. They're not particularly exciting, but they reward exploration a bit more.

Speaking of Crystarium, it sucks in this game. Somehow it makes it more linear, yet MORE CONFUSING. I seriously had no idea what was going on, so I just poured all of Serah's points into Ravager and Noel's into Commando and hoped for the best. It didn't give you any indication as to what each node would give you most of the time, unless it was a new special ability. I don't like not having a full understanding of my characters' stats and abilities and how they will progress, it makes me feel out of control. So this is a BIG problem for me.

The mini games are awkward and annoying. The ones in the demo were your typical 'cross a platform of tiles while only standing on each tile once' kinda thing. While getting a few crystals on the way. I don't mind that even if it seems out of place in an FF game - I like puzzles - but the big problem here is the controls. You still have 360 degree movement, which means when I'm walking with the analogue stick, I sometimes veered off slightly and walked on a tile I didn't mean to. It's just frustrating. Why didn't they limit movement two the four principal directions? It would have made it a lot less frustrating.

The story has potential. From the video clips they showed after the playable part of the demo was over, you can visit the same area in multiple different time lines, sorta like a smaller-scale Chrono Trigger. As we all know, Chrono Trigger is awesome, and if there is opportunity to do something in one timeline in order to open up new areas for exploration in future time lines, it could be pretty cool. The story could be good. Downside is, Serah and Noel just seem like time-travelling fixers of stuff. They go somewhere, people ask them to do stuff, they do it. This will probably end up resulting in you feeling rather uninvested in their characters, as they aren't really the heroes of their own story. They just are the catalysts for other events to happen. Juuuust like FF10-2 - playing YRP in a story about Shuyin and Lenne. At least this Noel character has some relation to the time-travelling aspect as he's from a future where Cocoon has been destroyed, and I'm guessing he's gone back to the past in an attempt to save humanity?

Lightning's story looks like a load of crap though, from the non-playable bit at the end. The villain looks lame - just some dude who wants to destroy the world. Seen it all before, and miles, miles better. I doubt he even has any real incentive beyond being evil.

And yes, Chocolina is a slut. But not in an appealing way, but instead a ridiculous, annoying way. She reminded me a lot of LeBlanc. So yeah, more FF10-2 comparisons. How many can me and Bob find between us?

And speaking of sexy, you know what? I wanna have Lebreau as a playable character. Y'know, that barmaid from the first one? I'd much rather have a game with her in the lead than Serah. Sassy badass chick with a machinegun > cute former damsel with a bow. Serah is nice and all, but the main draw for her character before was how much she meant to Snow. She was a plot device, but the relationship between her and Snow felt real and meaningful, and I find it hard to be invested in her character without Snow around. Why can't Snow be in this game? I think it'd be pretty cool to play as a married couple who go round kicking ass throughout time.

So, rounding up thoughts. I don't think I hated it as much as Bob did. Mog was irritating as hell and Chocolina wasn't far behind, and the new crystarium system sucks balls, but the game isn't a totally lost cause. That being said, I wasn't having a whole lot of fun playing it. It wasn't boring, but it didn't fill me with the excitement a FF game should. Not going in a straight line the whole time did make it at least a bit more fun than FF13 though, despite it's other flaws.

My expectation is that the game will be a more fun experience than the original, but only marginally. FF13-2 might have a crap story, but FF13's story was convoluted and didn't really deliver on a solid premise. FF13-2's battle system is kinda meh, but so was FF13's. FF13-2's crystarium is horrible, but the original system wasn't too great to begin with. Most of the flaws in FF13-2 are present in the original, which in some way allows me to focus more on the positives. Despite the goddamn moogle. I think I'll give this game a go, but only once it's cheaper or in a pre-owned section or something.

[Bob]

"The mini games are awkward and annoying. The ones in the demo were your typical 'cross a platform of tiles while only standing on each tile once' kinda thing. While getting a few crystals on the way. I don't mind that even if it seems out of place in an FF game - I like puzzles - but the big problem here is the controls. You still have 360 degree movement, which means when I'm walking with the analogue stick, I sometimes veered off slightly and walked on a tile I didn't mean to. It's just frustrating. Why didn't they limit movement two the four principal directions? It would have made it a lot less frustrating."

YES! I SO AGREE. My wife looked at me like I was crazy when I was getting all frustrated, but dammit, you want to stop on a tile, but Serah (I played as Serah) does a double-step to stop, so she'd overrun the tile! I wanted an NES style "up means move up one block" system because analog sucks for puzzles like this.

Oh, and one more thing neither of us mentioned: YOU CAN SWITCH YOUR PARTY LEADER IN BATTLE! I'm hoping this also means your leader can die without losing, but I never tested that. It's a good improvement, but doesn't save the game.

In regard to story, I'm kinda backwards from you, Count. I think Lightning's plot might be better than Sarah/Noel's plot, but it's really hard to tell. It kinda seems like Serah and Noel are going to do pointless missions in time and Light is going to fight somebody to the death. I feel like maybe Light is going to do something more "in one time" though, so I feel her general story might be entertaining. Serah and Noel have potential to be a good story, but knowing how FFs love pointless missions, I really can't see it being much more than that. Fingers crossed for a good story, but I think it'll be a lot of sandbox, and I don't like sandbox.

Kinda funny. FF13 is the most linear FF ever, so now FF13-2 is going sandbox/missions. Reminds me of, oh, FINAL FANTASY TEN. FFX was called linear back in the day for having no overmap. Then, FFX-2 was missions and sandbox. Same thing with FF13 now.

About Mog: I had the exact same thought, Count. "OH MY GOD IT'S SO ANNOYING! But then....I suppose that's probably about right..."

Speaking of speaking of sexy, yes, Lebreau was hella hot and I would put up with all of NORA to have the game about her. I think Serah was hot in her own regard, but with her new outfit she's not as hot anymore. But I was also thinking "wait, Serah has a sister and a fiance, yet she's going with a made-up character? WHY?" and then it hit me: time-travel. There's a good chance that they're going back to the events of FF13, so there will likely be doubles (as Alyssa mentions in the demo) and they probably didn't want to mess with that. There will be some reason for saying it has to be Serah since she wasn't really present in the game. That being said, I DO agree with Count. Married Serah and Snow kicking ass in time would be awesomer. Plot be damned, just make a new plot with Serah and all of NORA (including Snow) and have them all fly through time and fight Lavos or something!

PS, you make good points about spawning monsters being nice and not needing to screen away to make them reappear. That is a nice thing, plus the pre-emptive thing will likely be a lot better than "okay, sneeeeeaking up on him and...dammit! His friend saw me!" I wonder how it'll work with "rare" enemies though. Like, "I want to fight a tonberry for their item they drop" and only having chocobos spawn. BY THE WAY AM I THE ONLY ONE OFFENDED WHENEVER I HAVE TO FIGHT CHOCOBOS? I dunno. Chocobos in FFT were fine to fight and I like special fights like FF12's Trickster, but I always kinda like chocobos as passive enemies. Like in FF12 when they're green, but if you eff with them they attack. Or FF7 when they're in the background and you CAN hit them, but you're likely aiming for everybody else. But in the video, you see them clearly fighting chocobos. Chocobos are not enemies. It'd be like fighting moogles. Not cool.

When it goes cheap (I'm guessing pretty soon), let me know what you think, Count. To say I'm skeptical is an understatement now after that demo. I still hold by demos needing awesome ass-kickery. An awesome demo: Xenogears. It came in Parasite Eve and while I think I owned Xenogears and PE at the same time and didn't NEED a demo, I remember it and how awesome it was. They not only unlock a lot of abilities for you, but they basically have you play the intro area with harder enemies (I think) and two characters that shouldn't be there. Best part of that: they add dialogue to say exactly that. There's an exchange that they add to the demo about "why are we even here?" Point is: demos should be awesome, not just "eh, I guess they can play this chunk of game."

[countlieberkuhn]

Yeah, I will give you an opinion when I finally play the proper thing. Don't really wanna pay more than £20 for it though

And yeah, Serah ain't as hot in her new outfit. She's no longer rocking that sorta sexy schoolgirl look

[Fleck]

Fear not, friends! Though I lack a PS3 or 360, I shall tread the dangerous waters of 13-2 and give you all my review... through the magic of YOUTUBE WALKTHROUGHS!

I'm kind of burning out on Survivor right now, and I'm all caught up on MLP (just waiting for new episodes to come out!), so I don't have much else to watch. Luckily for me, even though the game just came out a couple of days ago, there are already some hardcore gamers who have uploaded a good chunk of the game. I'm currently watching the Let's Play from Tetraninja and he's pretty awesome because he shuts the hell up. I hate Let's Plays where the person insists on filling every spare moment with chatter, but this guy only talks when he has something to say. Awesome.

Right now I'm a couple hours in, and I'm at the point where the demo starts (at least, Tetraninja keeps saying that this part is in the demo). I'm annoyed by a few things so far, but actually the Historia Crux looks like it might be a fun game mechanic. Mostly I'm annoyed by how completely unrelated the plot is from the original. There was no mention of time travel or anything like that in 13. Say what you will about X-2, at least it was a logical continuation of events.

Anyway, I'll let you guys know what I think when I get to the end of this. Maybe I'll end up saving you all a few bucks.

[Bob]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljghWfNT6G0

And so, I shed a tear for ruining Ultros. I actually don't mind his CG render, but damn that voice is not Uncle Ulty. Why is it so computery? What ever happened to just getting Robin Williams if you wanted a silly voice? Not saying they could GET Robin, but there are people out there with silly voices. But he doesn't even NEED a terribly silly voice. He just needs to speak FAST. That's Ultros. A very har har har stand-up "I'll be here all night" kinda voice. Like, what if you took the gay out of Nathan Lane. THAT would be Ultros. Find THAT guy. He MUST exist!

[Bob]

Truth.

[countlieberkuhn]

That reminds me of Epic Movie, in that they just shoved a popular character in there and quoted a few of his lines without any understanding of context. Like calling Noel a muscle-head. Sabin he ain't! I thought the line about calling him prettier than Serah was funny though. With a more Ultrosy voice that line would have worked well.

[Bob]

Yeah, I liked that line, too. But he is no muscle-head. Sabin IS covered in muscles. Noel has one muscle, and it's in his vagina.

[Fleck]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Exhibit 47-C in the case of "Square-Enix Doesn't Understand Final Fantasy:" the DLC battle against Gilgamesh in FF13-2.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XsQIHGSNhs&feature=g-vrec

May I direct your attention to several facts. One, notice how Gilgamesh is voiced by the legendary John DiMaggio. You may, at first, be tempted to believe that this is a point in the game's favor, but then notice that John's voice is completely drowned out, to the point where subtitles are not only helpful, but necessary to understand the dialog. And what, you ask, is drowning out his voice? It is, predictably, the iconic song "Battle on the Big Bridge." Another point in SE's favor? Of course not. It is a lousy, awkward cover using a mix of traditional Japanese instruments and a meandering electric guitar, trying to give the fight a "samurai" feel, and failing.

Notice also, how Gilgamesh's introduction violates basic principles of the English language. I shall now quote a sentence from the introduction. Ahem. "Brash is he, and reckless: though emotional and mercurial."

You see, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, when a sentence is structured "A though B," or "A but B" or anything similar, simple logic dictates that either A or B is a negative statement about the subject, while the other is a positive one. For example, "Bob is a sexy man-beast, BUT he has too many women and never has time for me." Or "Bob's never interested in foreplay, THOUGH he does love to play dress-up sometimes." Notice how either the first or second half expresses a positive statement, while the complementing half expresses a negation or reversal. To merely rattle off four words with similar definitions and then arbitrarily separate them with a "though" is a violation of the English language and common sense. Furthermore, that very same sentence contains the most ridiculous use of a colon since gay people started inserting hamsters up their asses. SE attempts to distract from this egregious misuse of our beloved language by dragging up archaic terms like "mercurial" to hide behind a veneer of pseudo-intellectualism and confuse players into thinking that something clever has been spoken when, in fact, the Arbiter's introduction of Gilgamesh is as nonsensical as the typical teenager's Twitter feed.

In conclusion, SE can eat a dick.