True Cast

[Bob]

......IT'S A DOUBLE TRAP!

[Fleck]

STOP COCK-BLOCKING, YOU PREPZZZ!!!!

[countlieberkuhn]

Don't you be takin' that Tara Gillesbie tone with me, Fleck, or you'll NEVER get any from me!

[Fleck]

If sex with you means that I can't rage incoherently at prepz, then IT'S NOT WORTH IT!

PRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!111

[countlieberkuhn]

Good true casts. To comment on your closing line about how FF3 was a step back in terms of character development, I'd say that the same kinda goes for FF5 as well. Compared to the brilliant story of FF4 where characters come and go (but are nearly always relevant for their duration with your party), FF5 seems like a step back to FF3 territory.

I was going to question about Basch being placed lower than Fran in the list, but you were right - he becomes increasingly irrelevant as the game goes along, despite being one of the most interesting and involved characters in the game when he joins you. In fact, I'd say he started out as one of the most interesting and relevant characters in FF history when he joined, but he just never really gets the spotlight again. The whole story arc about him trying to clear his name, and having to put up with everyone not trusting him for ages probably should have been the main story arc of the game. It's interesting, it's character-driven, and has a direct relevance to the overall plot.
Clear his name > expose the tyranny of Vayne > Larsa gets even MORE involved > epic battle to reclaim Ashe's rightful place on the throne.

While on the topic of Larsa, I'm glad you gave him an honourable mention. He's clever, he's important, and despite loving his brother Vayne, he's astute enough to be able to look beyond that and see the evil ambitions of his brother and the corruption of his nation's leadership. While he is more relevant than most of your party in the end, it is good that he remained as an occasional guest, since most of his contribution to the cause is through his political strength anyway.

As a side note, sure I've mentioned it before, but Basch was supposed to be the main character, until some people at Square Enix decided that having an older, rugged, manly man as a lead character wouldn't sell as well to the mainstream Japanese audiences as their more formulaic blonde pretty boy teen. As such, Vaan was created to fulfil this quota, despite most of the plot being already worked out at that stage. This is why Vaan is pointless, and Basch has an incredibly relevant story which later gets sidelined as he got relegated to supporting character status.

I do rather like FF12 in theory. I prefer it to FF13 because the plot is actually pretty good and a nice change of pace from standard final fantasy fare, despite it not being handled too well later on. If it had been a story about Basch and Ashe and their quests for freedom and redemption, it could have been awesome. That, and if they didn't have so many retarded sidequests which make strategy guides all but a necessity.

[agent0042]

Yeah, I enjoyed reading the Final Fantasy XII True Cast as well. I felt the same way as count - I was all prepared to protest Basch being secondary cast, but I read through it and couldn't disagree. He does totally fade away. And Viva Larsa! I like how he's become the icon for True Cast. Oh, and am I the only one who never, ever thought that Larsa was a girl? Nothing about him said "girl" to me, from the name (either Lamont or Larsa) to his appearance. But I think I've said that before on these boards.

[Bob]

Yeah, I think a focus on Basch could've improved the plot. My issue with the plot of FF12 is that it is almost entirely sidequests, or so I feel. Going to Giruvegan, for example, is a waste of time. If it had been the focus and Dr. Cid had been the big bad (which, come on, he was), it would've been a better plot and progression. They build up to nethicite, but then it ends with a Star Wars-esque airship battle.

By the way, have I (or somebody else) mentioned already how FF12's plot and characters are almost a direct parallel to Star Wars: A New Hope? Go on, analyze it. They're almost the exact same.

Hint: Penelo is a droid and Fran is a wookie.

[agent0042]

Oh yes, the Star Wars comparison has been made more than once. But Final Fantasy loves its Star Wars references anyway. If you'll recall, both Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy VI were about a Rebellion fighting an evil Empire. And then there's Necron at the end of Final Fantasy IX telling you that "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering." And, of course, the recurring references to Biggs and Wedge...

Hint: Penelo is a droid and Fran is a wookie.
No points to anyone for figuring out who Ashe is.

[Bob]

Also FF6 with Celes's line to Locke (if he's in soldier costume) about being a little short to be an imperial trooper or whatever.

But yeah, most games drop the occasional Star Wars reference, but FF12 is REALLY bad for references. Characters, settings, themes...there's a lot.

[agent0042]

Well, the parallels are there, at least on the heroic side. Perhaps not so much on the Empire's side. The Emperor is killed off relatively early in the game and Vayne isn't exactly Darth Vader.

[Bob]

Heh, yeah, but this is only looking at A New Hope, so Emperor is unimportant and there really isn't a Darth Vaynedar.

Here's what I think (not really): the game's creators decided that Basch was a terrible main character for the reasons Count said (manly man), so they wanted to put in somebody wimpy. And they were like, "well, since we already have a sand-city, let's put in Luke Skywalker! ha lol ha!" And then somebody was like "Yes! Let's do that! He'll have dead parents like Luke (not quite but follow me) and he wants to be a pilot!" "Yeah, and then he meets this scuzzball sky pirate Balthier Solo with his co-pilot: Chewbacca!" "Eww, Chewy? No, let's make a SEXY Chewy!" "This keeps getting better!"

...I won't do the whole story. But yeah, parallels.

[Fleck]

Being a Sky Pirate ain't like dustin' crops, boy!

[Bob]

Hey I'm not such a bad pilot myself!

[Fleck]

Nice True Cast, B-Man. I'm still torn as to whether or not I should argue with you, because I haven't yet decided what actually constitutes "The Plot" in FF9. And until I figure out what the plot is, I can't really decide who is most important in advancing said plot.

Like you mentioned in the TC: the game is really two games. In the first half, the game is about Brahne's abuse of power and her impending world war. It's a good plot, because it affects all the characters, because even if they don't have personal ties to the events of the war, they can still say," oh shiz, my house gonna asplode" and join in the fight. Then Kuja becomes the enemy and NO ONE except for Zidane has any personal involvement in the events anymore. Yeah, Kuja makes things rough for people and he probably would have destroyed the world, but it's a much more abstract threat than Brahne's. After all, if someone says "Hey, this guy is gonna fuse an alien planet with ours and kill us all," you say, "oh, someone should probably stop him" and go back to playing Mario. But if someone says, "Oh snap, theys comin' with soldiers to bust you up tomorrow" you grab your pitchfork and start prepping for battle. The danger in the first half of the game feels much more real and immediate.

So, in a sense, you could almost consider everyone except Zidane to be secondary/unnecessary, because he's the only character who has personal ties to both halves of the game. In another sense, you could assume that the plot of FF9 is largely character-driven (which it is) and then go by how much each character contributes to the dialog/progression of events. Or you could focus on the first half of the game and consider the characters from that perspective (in which case you get a TC that's basically Bob's interpretation of it).

I guess I'm just saying there's a lot of ways to look at this one.

[Bob]

Yeah, most definitely. What I figure is that the plot is in pieces, and the three pieces are Zidane's, Garnet's, and Vivi's. Steiner is involved in all of them (although some fairly loosely) and is dealing with inner turmoil, but he's still a major player. I really figure that I can't define the plot too directly or else all True Casts will be one character. Go Cloud! Go Squall! And all that. I think all pieces of the game are important, hence my picks.

The easiest part of this TC was the Unnecessary Cast. Stupid Amarant. I use him often because I love monks, but damn he's pointless!