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Post by countlieberkuhn on Nov 3, 2010 0:39:01 GMT -8
I'm the same with items, Bob. The only item I've ever bought in recent memory was Athenian Waters in Chrono Trigger, which I finished last night. Hurrah! And that's because as you say, enemies tend to be mean and target low HP people, so reviving one person can typically take 3 or so Athenian Waters/Phoenix Downs to fully recover.
I also never both with Item shops in towns. In early FF games, the order was Weapon Shop, Magic Shop, Armour shop. And I'd only buy direct damage or healing magic before armour too. If it's something like bio or confuse, it can wait 'til I've gotten all the best armour I can at the time. Especially since I'm unlikely to ever use spells like that. I just like my mages to have a complete spellbook.
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Post by Bob on Nov 3, 2010 6:37:53 GMT -8
Yeah, I buy all magics only because I want a full spell book. My OCD consumes me! I barely use magic, and yet, it's #1 on my buy list, just for the full set. Which is why I like games that magic doesn't cost money.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 22, 2010 0:33:05 GMT -8
Reading the new ones (X and X-2), I find them interesting, particularly the latter. FFX is a very good game thanks to its characters, and while I don't think the plot is as good as some other FF games (it's about a journey and there's very few surprises along the way), the characters are what keep everything interesting. Their big mix of personalities and different outlooks on their situation make even the relatively simple plot enjoyable to follow, and allows for the game to touch on a lot of religious undertones. I think Wakka and Rikku are particularly good, because they both have big, friendly personalities, yet they contrast very heavily in their beliefs. I'd even say the game's pro-Athiesm, because it's only when Wakka's belief in Yevon start to crumble that he's able to become friends with Rikku and accept the Al Bhed as a people, and its the Al Bhed athiestic and pragmatic way of thinking that ultimately saves the world from Sin. I'll disagree about Kimahri being a secondary character though. You argue that he's important when it comes to meeting the Ronso in the mountains, but are they really essential to the plot either? I think it's unfair to say that he's a secondary character, when you listed Vincent as an unnecessary cast in FF7. Granted, Vincent doesn't do much plot-wise in the game at the time you meet him, but he's linked to all the elements in the game's back-story together - Hojo, Lucrecia, Sephiroth, and Shin-Ra. Yes, his role in the story could very easily have been replaced by an NPC and nothing would have changed, and had he been a non-secret character he might have had a lot more involvement in the plot. But at least he contributes to the plot in some way, even if it's just to add a little more depth to the back story, which to me is what makes FF7 so compelling. There's a lot behind the scenes in FF7, and Vincent's in the middle of all that. The same can't really be said for Kimahri, whose just along for the ride really. He never questions anything, he just defends Yuna, no matter what decisions she makes. Put simply, either Kimahri is unnecessary, or Vincent is secondary The X-2 true cast was interesting reading. Paine was my favourite from that game, partly because she was the only one who wasn't annoying as hell, and also because she's the only playable character who adds anything to the game plot-wise, and as you said her backstory is about the only interesting thing the game has to offer. To be fair, the story is really about Lenne and Shuyin. Yuna never really contributes to that plot at all, and all she is is a vehicle to allow the player to discover this story through her search of Tidus through the spheres. Much like Tidus in FFX, Yuna exists here to find out the story and ask the questions, but since the events have already transpired, she has no influence on anything, unlike Tidus.
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Post by agent0042 on Dec 22, 2010 3:41:26 GMT -8
Interesting reading. I agree that Lulu is almost secondary. In fact, you very easily could have put her there, and I wouldn't have argued. And I think I agree with count about Kimahri. But, then again, I've never been a big Kimahri fan...
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Post by Bob on Dec 22, 2010 13:08:02 GMT -8
I'm pretty much taking my vacation leave, but I'll defend my True Cast before I go. Frankly, I'm surprised this is the first I've heard a dispute from. I thought you'd all have a beef with a LOT of what I said Kimahri is kind of being lumped into the same boat as Biran and Yenke as well. Their occasional memos about "summoners disappearing" really only happens because of Kimahri. If there were no Ronso in the party, they wouldn't give you tips and such. Not that they're a huge plot-point, but they help. But also Kimahri is a nice second for Tidus at times. Like when Tidus starts getting all "GOTTA SAVE YUNA" in Bevelle and Kimahri steps up to help him. Also Kimahri has interesting development in the game when he starts getting so influenced by Tidus. I liked that aspect of him. Yeah, Kimahri was definitely teetering on the Secondary/Unnecessary line, but I think he added enough to the game to bump him up. ....Also the fact that he's my #1 Replay Value person helps him a bit, even if that's not a story element. But seriously, everybody else in the game has the same progression Sphere-Grid-wise except him (unless you WANT him to be the same, but I almost never have the same Kimahri). So yeah, tiny elements like this were what made the scales teeter in his favor. For Vincent, yeah, he could've stayed in the coffin and nothing would've changed. They COULD have made him a necessary character, but they just didn't. You could have met him in his coffin, watched the flashbacks they show at the side-quest waterfall Lucrecia thingy, then just left without him getting out of his coffin and you would've still gotten almost the same experience, plot-wise. And with that, I'm heading away for the next almost-week! Take care everybody! Hope you enjoyed the Xmas update! I'll be back before the new year, but only barely! Adios!
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Post by Bob on Dec 29, 2010 19:28:41 GMT -8
Hrm, dangit. Count got me all rethinking some True Cast stuff. The big problem is that early FFs had less development than later ones, so they're kind of on a different scale. FF7 allowed you to take your own party members and they gain development if they're in your party, whereas FFX has the upper-hand by bringing your whole party with you everywhere, so everybody always grows. So now I'm trying to decide if this should factor into things... hrm... I think Kimahri grows as a person (Ronso person) throughout the journey, which is a large part of why he's listed as Secondary. I definitely have considered putting him as Unnecessary, but I'll keep what I said originally. ....But just so you know, Count, my wife agrees with you, not me
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 29, 2010 19:40:48 GMT -8
Oh ho ho! You probably shouldn't have shown her my opinion, Bob - be less work for you
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Post by Bob on Dec 29, 2010 19:53:30 GMT -8
Haha,well I didn't SHOW her, just mentioned the difference of opinion, and she thinks Kimahri be useless.
I've been thinkin' about it a bit and I think this is the big breakdown: True Cast = Important to game's entire plot. They're important. Secondary = Has some good development and characterization, but isn't terribly involved in the plot progression. Unnecessary = Just kinda tagging along.
So this is why things are as they are. What I didn't say in so many words in my FF7 TC is that Vincent is a strange case where he's Unnecessary, but if they'd just gotten their heads out of their asses and made Vincent a "must get" character, he probably would've skipped straight to True Cast, and probably pretty high on the list. If Kimahri got more development, he'd likely still be in Secondary just because most of his contributions to the plot aren't direct....If all that makes sense.
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Post by Fleck on Dec 29, 2010 20:42:41 GMT -8
I AGREE WITH YOU, BOB! If only for the sake of disagreeing with your wife. MAN POWER! HOOAH!
Okay, I agree with you for more reasons than just that. I think Vincent is unnecessary for pretty much the exact reason you list: you can skip him. For all intents and purposes, Vincent is an NPC with a lot of backstory who may or may not join your party under certain circumstances. Furthermore, nothing about the plot changes if you know Vincent's backstory. You just know more of it. And one more furthermore: by Vincent's own admission, it's his failure to act that allows Sephiroth to be born. So ultimately Vincent's contribution is.... to do nothing at all and watch bad stuff happen. Not a real mover and shaker, as far as I'm concerned. At least Kimahri jumps in to protect Yuna instead of being all emo and letting a hellspawn get brought into the world.
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Post by Bob on Dec 29, 2010 21:09:25 GMT -8
So there, Count! My OTHER sex partner agrees! Neener neener!
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 30, 2010 1:05:16 GMT -8
Goddamn it, I need a sex partner to agree with me! Any takers?
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Post by Bob on Dec 30, 2010 1:25:39 GMT -8
*hides wife* Nope, none here!
.....there better not be *shakes fist*
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Post by Fleck on Dec 30, 2010 1:48:20 GMT -8
Sex first, then maybe I'll consider agreeing with you. That's my offer.
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Post by Bob on Dec 30, 2010 1:50:29 GMT -8
IT'S A TRAP!
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 30, 2010 2:48:39 GMT -8
Is me or Fleck the trap?
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