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Post by countlieberkuhn on Apr 18, 2009 15:32:05 GMT -8
With regards to the imbaness of flare, perhaps it would be better to weaken the skill, or have the spell itself cost lots more mana? Since the way I figure, Ellone's high mp pool is extremely necessary to keep her going with status magic, of which she commands a lot. An MP pool of less than.. 38 was it for flare? would be sufficient to cast a couple of low level status spells, and maybe cast a direct damage spell maybe once or twice, and this doesn't even consider mana for healing herself, which she will probably need. Just my two cents... this is a lot harder to balance than blitzball in the end, isn't it?
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Post by Bob on Apr 18, 2009 15:59:14 GMT -8
Well, if the MP limit was lower, then Ellone and others could always use skills like Osmose, Chakra, or Pray to regain some MP... I also could always implement a FF12 style where you constantly gain a small portion of MP back every turn... Which might actually be a pretty good idea. So that way you can always do your small spells fairly consistently, while bigger spells will be impossible...
My dilemma is that FFs keep you from using super strong magic right away by just not giving you the magics until later... So it doesn't MATTER if you have the MP for Flare, you just don't HAVE it.. I was hoping my unlocking skills would prevent this a tiny bit, but I just happened to notice the other day that it's pretty easy to unlock all the black magics...
I'd redo spells to make them better or worse, but I found a site that gave all the exact equations and variables for spells and how powerful they are (I think it's for FF8), so I'd really like to leave magic alone and just try to fix physical attacks (you'll note that in FF8 your weapon upgrades don't hardly matter, which is likely why I'm having some problems...).
Anyway, as I get new people to play with, I'll decide what fix method I'll use, then let you all redo your stats before the actual tournament. I'd set a date for the tournament to start, but my schedule is so odd right now that it's hard to plan much of anything... I'm gonna aim for next Friday, but we'll see how things go.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Apr 18, 2009 16:57:08 GMT -8
Hmm, some mp recovery per turn would be a good idea actually. It would change the dynamics of some of the casters, as every now and then they'd have to use a basic attack in a prolonged fight. A constantly recharging mana pool would be useful, and pray would become a more viable skill, especially for casters with high magic power.
I'm assuming that anything that is listed under 'else randomly' will be chosen smartly - ie if it randomises a magic spell but the person has 0 mana, it would then go onto 'attack' or any other non-mp requiring skill such as deathblow and darkside, as opposed to the character doing nothing for a turn.
This would also make giving a caster a strong weapon such as a broadsword as opposed to a staff viable, since in the event of a magic-less turn, they could still actually do something worthwhile.
Finally, it also opens up the possibility for more accessories, like one that increases the rate of mana recovery per turn by a small amount, or one that swaps the mp gain for hp gain of an equal amount. Just some ideas!
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Post by Bob on Apr 20, 2009 11:19:18 GMT -8
That's what I'm thinking, too. Although for most mages, I think a staff would still be the better option since I'll have them increase magic power, and a broadsword will still require a bit of strength... BUT, if you have a status mage (since statuses aren't affected by magic power), it'd be a smart idea to have a high-ish strength stat and a good weapon... Though weapons and accessories will all happen in the NEXT tournament, not this one...
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Post by Bob on Apr 20, 2009 11:21:43 GMT -8
Oh, and yeah, they'll be chosen smartly in regard to MP. I won't have somebody give up a turn because they tried to use a spell and couldn't due to MP out or Silence...
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Post by Bob on May 3, 2009 18:48:21 GMT -8
Sorry, ya'll. I've kinda fallen away from the program for a bit (partly to write AFFR, and partly because I've been preoccupied). But I'm back on and testing characters, and I think I need to re-work stats and perhaps give a base character. So I think I'm going to play with numbers to come up with the stats that every character HAS to have, then I'll just have each of you decide where to give MORE points to. Having such a big flux is making for some weird fights, y'know? So I think tonight I'll think up the base numbers and I'll ask you guys to redo the character stats asap. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for the test data! It helped a lot.
Also I need to think up how I'll do gambits... It'll be pretty time-consuming to program everybody's gambits, and I'd really like to get this first tournament started soon. So I'll think about it.... It might end up being that the first tournament will be just randomly chosen actions or something (though I'd really like to have at least white magic be fairly smart..). I dunno, I'll think about it.
So Fleck! Wanna announce the start of the first tournament and set a date for it to start? Something late next week like Friday? It's all up to The Du. I think I can have everything we'd need for tourney 1 by then(ish).
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Post by Fleck on May 3, 2009 19:31:44 GMT -8
I hope when you say "late next week like Friday" you mean the Friday coming up and not the Friday after that because I just posted and I REFUSE TO CHANGE IT.
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Post by nobodyspecial on May 3, 2009 19:58:24 GMT -8
Well since I don't feel like posting on The Du's post 4 times, all four of my characters are entering. Plus Tifa too, so that makes 5 for me.
Reworking the stats for my characters is fine with me, implementing base values for the stats will probably work better and make it more balanced anyway.
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Post by Bob on May 3, 2009 22:44:53 GMT -8
I'd NEVER make a liar of The Du. The only people who dared face the Du are corpses now, because he is teh destroyar! Yeah, I meant this Friday. May umm... I'll guess about the 10th. Probably good to start it then, cuz I'm gonna be mildly computer-less starting about next weekend and running for close to a week, so I'll need to have all stuff done before then. So Fleck, since you're mentioning this PvP thing as a Program, I've kinda started thinking that maybe the fights will be similar to the beginning of Crisis Core with Seph vs Zach vs Genesis ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3ApM1c6hOQ&feature=PlayList&p=165947D368858E84&index=2 if you've never watched it). Basically, the fight simulator in the beginning of Star Ocean 3. Is that kind of what you're thinking with the Battle Program? I like the idea since the PvPs will be more equal and people like Laguna might actually be able to BEAT Seph this time, so calling it a simulator of sorts might be neat, but I was also curious if you felt that continuing PvPs are not The Arena's type of thing. If you don't want them associated with The Arena, we can have it be something unrelated... I don't mean to step on the Du's toes at all...
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Post by Bob on May 4, 2009 0:01:19 GMT -8
Couple things:
I've decided how a couple of the abilities will work now, though it's still not 100% (so you can change my mind if you disagreed).
1. Sing/Dance: I've decided how they'll work. Since there are many songs & dances in the FF series, the command "Sing" will be characterized by good things (HP recovery, MP recovery, buffs like protect, shell, haste, etc) and "Dance" will be bad things (HP attack, MP attack, negative statuses like blind, poison, confuse, etc). But it'd be unfair to allow you to just equip Sing instead of like, Green 2 (which does protect and shell) and save on MP costs, so the DOWNSIDE to Sing/Dance is that what dance they do will be random. So if you choose to Sing, you might get HP, you might get haste... Who knows... Likewise for Dance.
2. Stigma Magic: Like Sing/Dance, it could potentially be too good. Since in FFT, you could use this to cure a hefty number of statuses for free (if on level ground with the caster), it's way too dang good. So this version is going to simply cut the time each status is on the target of the spell (so if you're blinded for 2 turns and poisoned for 3, you'll now be blinded for 1 and poisoned for 2). Also there's a 30% chance of missing for each status cure.
3. Statuses (in general): I may have already mentioned it, but statuses will work like this. If you inflict a status like blind, it'll last for a certain amount of turns (I think 3?). Then if you cast blind AGAIN, it'll last for more turns (6?). So it means statuses are stackable. This kind of hurts Stigma Magic's use, but really helps stuff like Blindna and Esuna to be really really helpful.
4. MP: I was saying how I'd limit MP before to keep people from using Flare and stuff, then give regenerating MP, but I think with regenerating MP we could have some REALLY long fights... So instead I'm just going to give a base HP/MP stat (like with the rest of the stats) and it'll just be a low enough base that you can't add enough to get it too high... Sorry.
EDIT: 5. Damage -> MP: I'm removing this ability. I don't think anybody will/should use it, and it'd be REALLY complicated to program (not hard, but time consuming). So it's out.
All sound fair? Any questions you guys have at this point? I'm back to working on this, so I'll answer questions/concerns for now. I'll get those base stats up as soon as I can so you all can give me your characters. And I'll figure out a good way to do Gambits, too.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on May 4, 2009 7:40:04 GMT -8
Sounds good. Damage > MP was a weak skill, as you could get 3 hp per point spent, and only 1 MP. No reason to use it, and risk your mages running out of mana.
All my characters will be entering, i'll have a rework of their stats when you come up with the base stats.
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Post by seflask on May 4, 2009 9:15:35 GMT -8
When I figure out what I'm doing, I'll send the information to whoever is supposed to receive it. All I know is that Locke's in built skill, Steal, is probably useless in this setting.
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Post by bloodfestbutterfly on May 4, 2009 10:23:47 GMT -8
*still confused* I guess. As long as Vincent's stats look good...oh, and that's Angeal, not Zach.
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Post by Fleck on May 4, 2009 13:38:48 GMT -8
I haven't put too much thought into how this program translates into the Mallboro world. But hell, simulations sound really cool, and it would be something the Du would complain about, since he prefers real fighting.
So I guess that's what it is. NORG's new program is a virtual reality fighting simulator.
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Post by Bob on May 4, 2009 13:47:57 GMT -8
Ah, right. Angeal. I only watched that once a long time ago... I knew there was another name I was forgetting!
Steal IS useless in this setting, but it doesn't mean Locke will be. He can still be effective as a thief style though since he'll likely be really really fast.
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