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Post by Fleck on Jul 16, 2013 21:24:43 GMT -8
I say we power through. While the ratio of goalie boosts versus total number of goals does seem unbalanced, I have several arguments in that area.
1: It's still only the first round. Perhaps this round was a bit of an anomaly.
2: I rather like the lower total goals. It's much more akin to how blitz was in the original build, and I always felt that last season was erring on the side of too many goals.
3: The results aren't unexpected. If the Super Goalie thing were truly broken, I'd think we'd see more unusual results. But the Goers thrashed the Aurochs (as expected), Loveless tied SM7 (slightly less expected, but they do seem to be sort of "matter" versus "anti-matter" so it's not out of the question), Mercenaries beat Missiles (not unexpected), and Nightshades beat Guests Who (practically a given, although I'm glad my Guests at least made a game of it). The only oddity is TME shutting out Grizzlies, but I assume Gabe had a chance to retool TME in the off season and correct the builds so they're a better team than before.
4: Taking away Super Goalie will just create a different problem in the opposite direction. We all agreed that we needed to do SOMETHING to take the edge off the disproportionate SHT/CA balance, and this was our solution. It's not perfect, but things seem good so far. And anyway, next season should help balance this out, as SHT grows at around 3/2 the rate of CA, so this season should be the only one with this problem.
And that is my logic.
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Post by wyvernxk7 on Jul 17, 2013 11:24:23 GMT -8
Loveless
8: Genesis 7: Lightning 7: Terra 8: Sabin 8: Cecil 9: Vivi
Guests Who
8: Minwu 7: Larsa 7: Edea 8: Leo 8: Alma 9: Olan
SM7
8: Balthier 7: Seifer 7: Jecht 8: Cid Highwind 8: Edge 9: Edgar
Magic Missiles
8: Garnet 7: Rinoa 7: Rydia 8: Aeris 8: Yuna 9: Lulu
Mercenaries
8: Lani 7: Rude 7: Gafgarion 8: Ba'Gamnan 8: Amarant 9: Worker 8
Grizzly Bears
8: Sazh 7: Tellah 7: Orlandu 8: Auron 8: Duncan 9: Dr. Kadowaki
The Mad Experiments
8: Hojo 7: Kuja 7: Mikoto 8: Xande's Clone 8: Odine 9: No. 288
The Nightshades
8: Blank 7: Xu 7: Illua 8: Chime 8: Mira 9: Frimelda
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jul 19, 2013 4:07:18 GMT -8
I think I may have shot myself a bit in the foot here, looking at how high some peoples' CA scores are reaching from the logs Considering the highest CA score across both my teams is a whopping 18... Probably should have whacked a few more Super Goalie level ups in there Hope the rest of my teams have good ball control!
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Post by Bob on Jul 20, 2013 8:16:11 GMT -8
Let's get those Round 2 submissions in, ya'll! I think I'll try to sim tomorrow if I have the info.
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Post by Bob on Jul 22, 2013 11:28:57 GMT -8
Results are simmed. Fleck: Regarding GB vs LO, there is an error in the program. Another one of those infinite "gets a hand on it" loops. It's against Lightning, so I'll leave this as your call. I can re-sim the game, or we can let the match stand as-is. I'll let you decide if that was a critical enough error to warrant a re-sim.EDIT: I just decided to re-sim that match. I decided Fleck had nothing to lose in a re-sim (since LO lost), so I have re-simmed the match and updated the score. And....dammit. Sad face for me. Also: GW vs MRC was pretty intense. I pulled Gaf to get some unnecessary rest because GW is normally weak. They have improved. GW pretty effectively shut the Mercs down. Good job. Also: I'm starting to think the Goers are too damn good ALSO ALSO ALSO: I've fixed the program. I'm honestly surprised that this error hasn't come up before (or at least I've never noticed and nobody has pointed it out to me). It's honestly a pretty critical error, I think it just hasn't really mattered in the past because those that have weak ATK typically have weak BLK, so I think people have always just taken it on the chin and shot against them. This time though, Lightning broke Auron and not Zangan, so Zangan actually got a hand on the shot...again and again and again. Error SHOULD be fixed for future games.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jul 22, 2013 11:44:09 GMT -8
What exactly was the error?
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Post by Bob on Jul 22, 2013 13:59:37 GMT -8
Pretty bad one. A while loop that wasn't incrementing, so it'd continue on and on until the person was able to eventually grab the shot. Dunno why that was there; the pass loop was written perfectly, but this one was garbage. I really don't know how we've gone so long without this fairly-critical error popping its head up. It was around in the V1 days, but we supposedly conquered it back then. I guess not though.
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Post by Fleck on Jul 22, 2013 17:15:08 GMT -8
Team StaminaGrizzly Bears - Forward: Zangan - 7 Forward: Orlandu - 4 Center: Sazh - 6 Defender: Auron - 6 Defender: Duncan- 6 Goalie: Galuf - 9 BENCH: Tellah - 10 BENCH: Dr. Kadowaki -10 Mercenaries Forward: Tseng - 7 Forward: Rude - 4 Center: Lani - 6 Defender: Amarant - 6 Defender: Ba'Gamnan- 6 Goalie: Worker 8- 8 BENCH: Gafgarion -10 BENCH: Elena - 10 The Mad Experiments Forward: Kuja -4 Forward: Mikoto -4 Center: Hojo - 6 Defender: Odine -6 Defender: Xande's Clone -6 Goalie: No. 288 -8 BENCH: Julius -10 BENCH: Deling -10 The Nightshades Forward: Illua -4 Forward: Xu -4 Center: Blank -6 Defender: Chime -6 Defender: Mira -6 Goalie: Frimelda - 8 BENCH: Reno -10 BENCH: Cissnei -10 Sublimely Magnificent 7 Forward: Jecht -4 Forward: Seifer -4 Center: Laguna -8 Defender: Snow -8 Defender: Edge -6 Goalie: Edgar -8 BENCH: Balthier -10 BENCH: Cid Highwind -10 The Magic Missiles Forward: Rydia -4 Forward: Rinoa -4 Center: Garnet -6 Defender: Yuna -6 Defender: Aeris -6 Goalie: Lulu -8 BENCH: Selphie -10 BENCH: Vanille -10 Loveless Forward: Genesis -5 Forward: Terra -4 Center: Lightning -5 Defender: Sabin -6 Defender: Cecil -6 Goalie: Vivi -8 BENCH: Hope -10 BENCH: Marche -10 Guests Who Forward: Larsa -4 Forward: Lebreau -7 Center: Minwu -6 Defender: Leo -6 Defender: Alma -6 Goalie: Olan -8 BENCH: Edea -10 BENCH: FuSoYa -10 Commentary: Yeah, sorry about missing last week. I was caught up in the "do we resim?" debate and I didn't want to spend time working out the stamina until I was sure that debate was resolved. There may be some hiccups as I take over from where Gabe left off, so if you don't already double check my numbers, you'll DEFINITELY want to do it this week. Especially if your name is Bob. All people named Bob are required to double check my numbers. The Mercs are confusing the hell out of me. Am I right to assume that you're dropping Paine, Yuffie, and Locke in favor of Tseng, Rude, and Worker 8? In which case, WAY TO BE SEXIST, BRO! You're the reason we only have one female on these forums. And I just wanna take the time to say that I'm still liking the final scores. Yeah, we're getting a lot more ties, but given the fact that Blitz is basically underwater soccer, ties are to be expected. Also, I'm terrified of the Goers. And it's nice to see that the Aurochs can scratch out a tie, so they're not a total pushover. And yeah Bob, Guests Who were a total mess last season. When I went to level them up, I looked at their stats and they were... crazy. I have no idea what I was thinking. I know that they were supposed to be an experimental team, but I've forgotten what that experiment was supposed to be. Anyway, after leveling to correct errors and rebuilding Olan, I managed to make them into a somewhat respectable team. Hopefully they won't suck as much this time around. Next week, Loveless takes on Nightshades. Genesis reports that he considers the Shades to be Loveless' rival team, after LO's embarrassing defeat in the last tournament. The Guests get a chance to maybe possibly scratch out their first ever official win as they take on the Aurochs. SM7 and the Grizzlies, two of last season's top 3 teams face each other, each one looking to earn their first wins of the season. And will the Goers complete their decimation of Count's teams when they take on the Missiles, or will the girls pull out a surprise win or tie? All this and more on the next episode of Dragonball Z! And on Blitz too!
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Post by Bob on Jul 22, 2013 17:55:37 GMT -8
Lani - 6 Amarant - 6 Ba'Gamnan - 6 Gafgarion - 10 Tseng - 7 Elena - 10 Rude - 4 Worker 8 - 8
No more Rikku, either. I wrote this in the Team Registration page (and I swear one other, too), but here it is again:
(NOTE: I've changed The Thieves 'n Mercs to "The Mercenaries." I've replaced Paine with Tseng, Rikku with Elena, and Yuffie with Rude. I've also removed Locke from my line-up and replaced him with Worker 8: a completely new build.)
I dunno. For me, I'm thinking we'll play out this league, then maybe scratch all super goalies and either scratch keepas or make them +1 SHT +1 CA. Thing is, I really don't like that people are basically ONLY scoring by use of the goalie bonus. I'd really like players to stand on their own merits, too.
If I get time this summer, I'd like to work on a Version 5 of the program that will allow a few abilities. Nothing as fancy as I was discussing before, but just a few things to spice things up. I'll discuss more later so as not to side-track our league talks though, but I'd really like to try to get rid of the goalie bonus dependence. It should be a bonus to help people maybe score from farther away or something, not an outright requirement to score, methinks.
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Post by Fleck on Jul 22, 2013 19:09:43 GMT -8
Fixed.
I still say that, if we want to correct the CA/SHT balance next season, we don't need to take any action against CA. Rather, we can just allow things to play out. I think another round of level ups would be enough to correct in SHT's favor, and if it's not, we can just not include those packages next season (but still grandfather in the packages we've already taken). But we'll figure it out at the end of the season.
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Post by wyvernxk7 on Jul 22, 2013 20:51:59 GMT -8
if it's not, we can just not include those packages next season (but still grandfather in the packages we've already taken). But we'll figure it out at the end of the season. That's what I was thinking - that if for some reason things don't balance back out, we just prevent any further use of those packages. Essentially, it would be considered valid for builds up to level 15 but no subsequent leveling would be allowed. Thus, the most it could ever have (in instances of goalie rebuilds) is 7, but characters level 15 and up can no longer have SG bonuses added.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jul 23, 2013 2:27:52 GMT -8
I think I would need to have access to them in order to catch up though - I only used a single super goalie level up across both my teams and I can see me being annihilated this season because of it
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Post by Bob on Jul 23, 2013 7:55:31 GMT -8
I'm almost thinking that if we want/need Super Goalie, we should amend the Sum Rule to say that Super Goalie can only be like, 1/4 of your packages or 1/3 or something along those lines. Something less.
Anywho, if you can get your line-ups to me soon, then I can sim the next round. I'd like Wednesday, but our late start here might be closer to Thursday, so just as soon as you can. I'm dying to see if anybody can take down the Goers.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jul 23, 2013 14:56:12 GMT -8
I should have them up by tomorrow
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Post by wyvernxk7 on Jul 24, 2013 18:37:58 GMT -8
Team StaminaNext week, Loveless takes on Nightshades. Genesis reports that he considers the Shades to be Loveless' rival team, after LO's embarrassing defeat in the last tournament. Illua responds that Genesis ought to command a real team if he wants a shot at winning. *OOC: Good luck *
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