Top SNES Games

[Bob]

Just making a thread to hear any other opinions about Top SNES Games. I have my own top ten (and more) list on the site (under Extras currently) if you'd like to read, but I always like to hear other opinions.

[Fleck]

I mostly agree with you. Although I must admit that I'm one of those people who couldn't really get into Secret of Mana. I gave it a good shot though and got all three characters and most of the weapons. But after a certain point, the game gets really tedious. I can remember just taking the boomerang, tossing it into the growing hordes of demigods that I was facing, and then running away before everyone killed me, running circles and tossing my boomerang. I knew I could either quit or spend a bunch of time grinding to make my characters strong enough to stand a battle and I decided to quit.

For Donkey Kong Country, my opinion is a little bit skewed. I played (and quite enjoyed) DKC2 first, and then went back and played the original, then played DKC3. Maybe I just got progressively more burnt out with each iteration (I did spend a LOT of time with DKC2, finding the secrets and all, before I moved on to DKC1 and 3), but I found myself enjoying each new game less. Looking back and watching Game Grumps, I do think DKC1 is the superior game, but my childhood self disagrees.

Also, call me a heathen if you must, but I've never taken to any Zelda games, and never completed any of them. I got really close to beating Link to the Past when I was at Bob's house and just spent the weekend marathoning that bitch, but I never did finish it. I just get annoyed by how frequently I have no idea what the hell to do next. It's an exploration/discovery series, and I don't really care for that.

Never played Secret of Evermore and I played Illusions of Gaia so long ago that I might as well have never played it, for all I remember about the game. Otherwise, I feel okay with your list. I would add Super Metroid and Mega Man X (because it makes my dick ROCK HARD), and I've always had a soft spot for the Lost Vikings series, so I might give them an honorable mention.

[countlieberkuhn]

Your list contains a helluva lot of games that I'd also include, and possibly a couple of games I probably would include had I played them (Super Mario RPG comes to mind). While it's so, so hard to order them, my list would definitely have these titles in:

Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore
Illusion of Time/Gaia
Terranigma
Super Mario Kart
Yoshi's Island
Super Metroid (even though I never managed to beat it)

FF6
Chrono Trigger

The reason there's a gap before FF6 and Chrono Trigger is that those were games I never played until about 4 years ago. They weren't games that defined my SNES-playing experience, which was generally filled with more action-RPGs like the 'Secret of' games. But they definitely deserve to be there.

Terranigma was never released in the USA, so if you've not played it yet I'd highly recommend it if you can get hold of a ROM of it. It's made by the guys who made Illusion of Time/Gaia, and features some pretty deep combat mechanics (loads of different attacks) as well as an epic setting.

Games I didn't get on so well with were Super Mario World, A Link to the Past, and Donkey Kong Country. I think it's because I found them too hard at the time, and I'd probably appreciate them way more now, particularly Zelda. My appreciation for both Zelda and Mario both blossomed when the Nintendo 64 came out. Also, while I thought Star Fox was ok, I would definitely have to place Lylat Wars/Star Fox 64 on my list for top ten N64 games, should that become a list for the future. I still have extremely fond memories of that level where your team faces Star Wolf in an epic 4 vs 4 battle, in a fully 3D battlefield around a satellite.

I still consider the SNES to be the greatest console for RPGs ever, although the PS1 comes pretty close with its string of great Final Fantasy games.

[Bob]

I'm really peeved that Terranigma never came to the states. I loved Illusions of Gaia/Time. So much that I went back and tried Soul Blazer...and laughed my ass off. There is a HUGE gap between IoG and SB. SB sucks butt.

I've finally got the ability to try out Super Metroid, so we'll see if that can move up to honorable mention. Back in the day, I tried to find Terranigma, but kept finding non-translated versions.

Secret of Mana REALLY helps if you have a second player. I haven't played it single player because, yes, it's boring. And the computer is pretty worthless. You set them to be aggressive and they get themselves killed. Set them to avoid and they run away too much. Very hard to control them, plus with two of them following you, they have a tendency to get caught in corners and impede your progress. It's an almost-required two-player game, which is why the beginning sucks so much. It's probably why I don't hold Seiken Densetsu 3 in high regard (Secret of Mana being Seiken Densetsu 2); I played it alone, so it just wasn't too fun. Your second player has to be fun, too. It can be good fun, stealing each others' weapons and such. Plus, I love the leveling of magic. I like that the animation changes, like fireballs getting bigger. They even have random Level 8 animations that freeze the screen for their badass animation, like the fireballs turning into dragons and attacking enemies. Final note: the boomerang SUCKS. Worst weapon in the game by far.

Legend of Zelda: ALttP was a really fun game for me, plus I didn't find it to be all that much discovery, though I do see what you mean. It's hard because I've played it so many times that I can find friggin everything, but I like that things are marked on the map like dungeons, even if it takes some effort to figure out how to get to them (generally: go to light world and lift a heavy stone). But I know what you mean because that's the problem I have with other Zelda games. I enjoyed LoZ: ALttP and the original, but that's it. LoZ the original is a fun game, great for the NES days. Only problem is that it's hard to find the dungeons, plus hard to find them in order. "Yay! I found the second dungeon! ...Wait, that's the SIXTH dungeon! Crap!"

[Bob]

...Okay, I'm sorry, but Super Metroid will not be in my Top 10. I'm already raging at this game for having actual progress requiring "use a super missile to destroy a block in the wall that looks like all the other blocks." It has a few good mechanics, but this would be faaaar from my Top 10. Rage rage rage!

[Fleck]

I know the boomerang sucks for Secret of Mana, but I needed ranged attacks to survive. If I let any enemies get close, they'd pin me in a corner and beat me to death, so I had to use the "RANG AND RUN" method to get through every fight. It got really tedious.

And hahaha Bob... you're still on the easy part of Super Metroid, before the game asks you to comb the ENTIRE WORLD MAP with your little scanner to find secret passages.

Move two steps.... scan.... move two steps.... scan.

Eventually you'll find that there is logic to it, and READ YOUR MAP. I know it seems useless(ish) now, but almost every blank area of your map will be filled at some point, so if you don't know where to go, look for holes in your map. Odds are there's something there you want. Also, soon enough you'll be drowning in Super Missiles and won't think anything of lobbing a few at random walls just to see what's there. Once your main gun gets leveled up a couple of times, the rest of the weapons become only useful for bosses and shooting at walls.

STICK WITH IT!

[Bob]

Yeah, Mana has the downside of you're either winning easily or they're kicking your arse all over the place until you die. Seriously, they love to hit you when you're down. It's annoying.

Ugh, a scanner, too? I'll friggin walkthrough. I'm already headed there again. I read my map often and now I'm in the habit of blasting a power bomb every now and again, just in case of hidden passages.

[Fleck]

The scanner isn't strictly necessary. What it does is reveal hidden passages and explodable spaces and whatnot. You can beat the game without it, but scanning around saves you from having to shoot anything and everything around you. Also, with some exceptions, the essential items are put in fairly obvious locations. It's the bonus stuff that's a real pain to find.

[Bob]

Super Metroid = Complete. Thanks for the rom, Fleck! Too bad it's soooo not my kind of game. On the plus side, I don't have to revise my list. Yay?

Maridia can SUCK MY BUTT. Holy crap I hated that section. I about ragequit fifty times when I got caught in the fuckin' quicksand. Holy BALLS that shit is stupid. And people on forums just say "oh yeah, I just mash buttons to get out." Umm, somebody that plays the game often can't even get out? And it's impossible not to get in there. Samus jumps like a butt. Or balls. I've used both in this paragraph, so let's just say she jumps like buttballs. For accuracy, that is. Otherwise, her jumping is great.

Anyway, verdict is...not my kind of game. Hidden passages for required items is a no-go. I enjoyed searching occasionally, but for the whole dang game? No way. Because I'm lazy, I think maybe five times I looked up how to get to a room, but generally just to see what room I should look in. "Hmm, there's a room above it that might have a passage, but also a room to the right, and they're both about a 15 minute hop-fest away from each other. Okay, youtube or gamefaqs or whatever, tell me which one. Then I watch the video, see the guy going to the room above it, stop the video, and do it myself. Yes, still cheating, but at least I can half feel like I found it. Otherwise, I probably would've ragequit. This is a ragequitable game.

Also: why was Motherbrain so dang easy? Tons of hard bosses, then...that? *shrug* Oh well. I also almost ragequit when the Big Metroid latched onto me and killed me in a hit. Stupid rewind button. I kept trying new ways to avoid that until the internet said "It's your baby friend! It will let go!" Then I felt dumb. That is all. Now to do something productive. Like...umm...I'll start by thinking up something productive.

[Fleck]

I was never terribly fond of the exploration either. But I've always liked Super Metroid because it does a great job of rewarding you for your work. Your upgrades are actually useful and make you powerful and make you feel powerful. Unlike say, Megaman or something, where the upgrades are usually pretty useless (until you get to the boss and spam its weakness), each upgrade in Metroid has a distinct use and makes you feel like a badass.

You suffer and labor with your little peashooter in the beginning, and then you fall in that way deep hole early in the game, and you're just like, "Well.... fuck." And you fight your way around until you find the ice beam and the splitter (you better have found the splitter, Bob), and then like some epic hero, you climb your way out of the hole with the ice beam and suddenly you're buttfucking Space Pirates left and right. Then you get to the harder areas, and you're tip-toeing around lava, and running screaming through certain sections, then you get the powerup and lay waste to the foes who were beating you before and jog through boiling lava like it's Samus' personal bubble bath.

Then at the end of the game you're a spinning, flying, megabomb dropping badass and you basically are god of the planet. It's just so damn satisfying to me. Even most RPGs, which pride themselves on playing on that strengthening up aspect, rarely hit the level of Super Metroid for me. I do wish that some of the major upgrades were a little easier to find, saving the tough finds for the really good, but optional items, but it's a part of the game, and adds to the rewarding feeling... especially when you do it WITHOUT a guide... unlike certain cheaters who have posted in the thread before me.

Anyway, still one of my favs.

[Bob]

One thing that kept racing through my mind as I played was how backwards games like this seem. It's the same as Final Fantasy and pretty much every game in existence, but this one made me think it. That thought being how it's funny that advanced players know all the secrets and go into every fight decked out, while newbies suffer through an incredibly difficult, sometimes impossible fight. I thought of this when I was fighting the boss on the Wrecked Ship. Pontoon or something weird like that. I went in with three energy tanks and not many missiles. I was boned. I was in the wrong area at the time. He beat the tar outta me. So then I decided to look for every secret I could find by checking the map and looking for either blue areas or unfinished rooms (no white line meaning wall). After that, I had something like six energy tanks, a couple reserves, and an assload more missiles. The boss was a joke.

That's part of my problem with these self-discovery kinds of games. It's so hard to tell if something is either supposed to be hard or if I'm just under-prepared. I hate that feeling of "did I lose because I just need to work on a better strategy, or did I lose because I missed an awesome weapon?" But one way I differ from you is that I hate wasting time. If I'm laying waste to foes that beat me before, I'm wondering why they didn't make a shortcut around them because it's a waste of my time. I do understand the feeling you're mentioning, kinda like in Resident Evil when you see a zombie again after fighting Crimsons and Lickers and you're like, "Oh, phew, only a zombie," whereas you used to say, "Aahhhh! Zombie!" but I just started to get tired of getting lost.

And the fuck-you bridges? I could do without those. The ones that dissolve when you step on them, so the game puts an energy tank on the other side of the room for you to derp over to, only to fall down. I had a Rewind button to cheat with, but that's for the best since those things are ragequit worthy. I get that they want you to get in the habit of scanning the floor before you walk on it, but it takes so LONG to push select five dang times to get to the scanner, scan the floor, then walk. So yay for Rewind Button! I get to be a dumbass and fix my mistakes! Woo! Save states were good, too. I'd save in one place, then wander off into somewhere stupid (Maridia! *shakes fist*), then get stuck, find nothing good, and say "Naw, screw it. I don't want to be here anyway" and load state. Go ZSNES.

Moral of the story: I think I've just played too many of these kinds of games to find this one special, though I'm guessing it was one of the first. The "buttfucking space pirates" thing reminds me of upgrading your sword in Zelda, where now the guys that took four hits only take one. So I think it just depends on what you grew up with.

Huh. Y'know, there are really a lot of parallels to be drawn between Zelda and Metroid. It's just "medieval+top-down" vs "space+platformer." So maybe my love for Zelda: ALttP is the same as you and Super Metroid. Love the game, but then try the other one and it doesn't feel so special. Even the whole "jumping through lava" is similar to, say, going to the Dark World and NOT being a pink bunny thing. And you know what Zelda does? Shortcuts. You like, do it the long way first, then you get the power glove and lift the rock blocking the shortcut, or use the hook shot to skip the long route.

SNES ZELDA > SNES METROID FLAME WARZZZZ!

I'm also way too big on story. I like when it feels like I'm building to something. I found the four-headed statue and knew I had four bosses to beat, but other than that, there was no feeling of accomplishment until the very end of the game. The story is in two parts: beginning and end. Even Mario gives you progressive benchmarks. Beat a castle, go to a completely new world with a completely new theme, etc.

But anyway, I think I've just played too many video games. I can see a younger version of me enjoying this more. Young Bob, we'll call him. Young Bob would get the grapple beam and say, "OH! THIS is how I can get across that pit I died in!" whereas Bob just says, "Ugh, I have to go all the way back to Brinstar?" Young Bob would say, "I can use this Space Jump to get across quicksand easier!" while Bob just says, "I don't care if it's easier, the quicksand was the stupidest thing to put in a game ever." (I'm still raging about quicksand...so terrible). Young Bob would say, "Yes! More regular missiles!" but Bob just says, "I hav over a friggin' hundred. Do I LOOK like I need more missiles!?"

...Now I want to make a section of my website. Young Bob vs Old Bob.

By the way, if Splitter=Spazer, then I got it. Only upgrade I missed was the Spring Ball...and a handful of energy tanks and missiles. I ended with 70% items, which ain't bad for a first playthrough. Part of what I used the walkthrough for was just to see what I missed. I looked up a map after I beat the four bosses and was heading into T-Land (Taurin...Tourin...I dunno) and saw that I missed the Spring Ball and was like, "Oh no! I might need that!" And then I saw it was in Maridia and did a new search for, "Do I REALLY need the Spring Ball?" ...Another moral of the story: I HATE Maridia. Cool with Crateria, cool with Brinstar, cool with Norfair, and cool with T-Land, but HATE Maridia and the area outside the Wrecked Ship.

Edit: tl;dr much?

[Fleck]

FLLLLAAAAMMMEEE WAAARRRRRZZZZZZ!!!!!

Bob sucks. More on this story at 11.

[countlieberkuhn]

Super Metroid was probably the first game to effectively combine Megaman style gameplay with a sense of power progression, reward exploration, and make platformers into a non-linear game type. It's one of those things where the faults of the game either fall into the category of 'its treading new ground, so some mechanics aren't well implemented' (gamers at the time wouldn't notice this one as it had no comparison), or 'all platformers had annoying bits like this'. Which again, at the time nobody really noticed, because these were faults with all games at the time, so nobody knew any better

Then you get people like me, who gets a weird masochistic pleasure out of games with really mean, unforgiving mechanics because when I actually beat it I feel an actual sense of accomplishment. So I'm still fine with the game This is assuming though, that the thing can be beaten either through skill, a particular trick, or grinding in the worst cases. Not when it comes down to a big ol' fuck you which is dependent on luck more than anything else, such as the penultimate boss of Phantasy Star 2.

Games generally improve the more that a particular genre is made, so long as some attempt at innovation is made, and not just carbon-copying (I'm looking at you, 90% of modern FPS since COD4 came out).

[Bob]

Yeah, I think a lot of it does fall into those categories. But really, this just falls into my one big category of "not really my thing." Odd thing is, I'm a huge fan of "I Wanna Be The Guy," which is one of these kinds of games on uber-impossible mode.

And really, bottom line is that there were only a couple things that I really disliked in this game, they were just largely prominent, mostly in Maridia (MARIDIAAAA *shakes fist*). One is quicksand, which really has no purpose in the game except to piss you off. Really, if I didn't have a Rewind Button, I'd have died about a zillion times in the quicksand. I just could NOT get out of it. I finally read online something about jumping where sand is falling, which kiiinda helped. But I don't like traps. Neither does my thumb, which still aches from me wailing on the D-Pad of my controller to get free. And it wasn't just quicksand, either, that's just my biggest example of "difficult because of controls."

The other is water. This definitely falls in the global category of "games should not have water levels." I'm all for restrictions, so if you don't want people to go where there's water, then make us wait until Samus gets a pair of goggles and some nose plugs. That's fine. But the impaired movement IN the water bugs the crap out of me. I'd rather an instant death from touching water than how she moves in the water. Such jerky movements, plus she cannot transition between in water and out of water. I'm watching her shoes get higher than the ledge I'm jumping to, but no, she's not having it. And this isn't a restriction, either. I'm just trying to get back where I came from.

So yeah, most of my beef comes from small details, which unlike Count, I'm not a fan of. I like difficulty in strategy and such, but not with general controls, hence my love for IWBTG. IWBTG is one of the hardest games in existence (so they say...I really don't think so though), but the controls are fluid. Jump button, shoot button, direction buttons. The fact that there's an incredibly difficult screen that takes me an hour to clear? Not a bad thing in my book.

On the whole, Super Metroid is not a bad game, but it has so many ragequit moments (mostly in Maridia) that it'll definitely stay far from my Top 10. That's all I'm sayin'. I come off as assy when I critique things, but it's not bad. I just slam it harder than normal because it's generally in most peoples' top five SNES games, so the moral of the story is that Bob just doesn't get it.

MARIDIAAAA! *shakes fist*

EDIT: On two plus sides of Super Metroid though, I did love the learning aspect that Egoraptor mentions in Sequelitis with Mega Man X. I liked how it taught you things and prepared you. For instance, that dickbag statue-come-to-life toward the end that throws missiles back at you and shit. He effed my a all over the place. Then, when I retried, I went another direction first and found some yellow enemies that blocked all my crap EXCEPT my charged beam. So then I was like "aha!" and went back to Mr. Statue and charged my beam at him, and it worked! Huzzah! So that was good.

Another awesome thing: learning the Smash Bros Samus moves. It's just kinda neat to be like "ooh missiles! Like Samus uses! Ooh bombs dropped while I'm in a ball! Ooh charged beam!" Fun to get all that. Kinda makes me want Smash Bros Samus to freeze stuff! But...she's already too good, so...yeah.