Post by Dale on Oct 27, 2012 4:44:32 GMT -8
This is my tenth and last of my series of poll threads, which I was supposed to have started months ago, but somehow never got around to it. I probably got lazy. I don't know. But whatever. I'm finally getting it up.
After ranking all of the main playable characters in each FF game from 4 through 13, I'm now making a poll on which you can all rank the people most opposed to the characters: the main villains and antagonists of each game. The ones whom I looked up and got confirmation were the ACTUAL main villains and antagonists of their games. Some were developed very well, while others were not. Some were awesome, some were lame, and some were somewhere in between. Some had fantastic evil plots to destroy their worlds, and some had pretty mild ones. And some worked just fine as the main villains, while some would probably have been better off passing the torch to better, more awesome villains in their games.
Where do they rank for you? Here are mine:
1. Kefka: Numbers one and two were both pretty close for me, because hey, you've gotta give some props to the villains who actually did accomplish their goals (or the vast majority of them). I put the clown up at the top because of one main reason. He was the ONLY one to definitively take over the world. Yes, he only held onto his reign for a year, but in FF, even that's a long time! Also, it was interesting that he was one of the only two constantly-fought villains who actually got stronger as Terra and the others fought him throughout the game. Also, the moment he overthrew Gestahl was a HUGE turning point in FF6. Also, the "self-help booklet" remark prior to the final battle was hilarious!
There are some cons to him, though. For starters, his theme didn't real sound all that evil. It sounded as clownish as he looked. Also, as much as it did the trick in demonstrating just how crazy and evil he was . . . I never could get over Doma. That was extreme and totally unnecessary.
2. Barthandelus: The Lord Sovereign Fal'Cie rules above all (well, all but one) mainly for his evil plan. I mean, he pretty much lays out for Lightning and the rest of the party exactly what their Focus is (destroying Cocoon by killing Orphan). They all resolve not to do that. Yet instead of just waiting for their brands to fully advance so they could go Cie'th, they . . . get masterfully spurned on by Barthandelus and eventually wind up doing exactly what they resolved not to do. Seriously. The guy had a plan, and he manipulated every single thing to make sure it was seen through. I don't know how he was able to get them to forget all about their resolve to not go through with things, but he did, and that? Is bad-ass. Plus, as a more trivial thing, I've recently come to positively love a good evil laugh, and his voice actor gave him the BEST evil laugh a villain could have in the series, bar none. (IMO, at least.) You really get the evil vibe from him almost entirely due to it.
The cons to him, though? Well, if I'm thinking that at least one of the other villains would've been better as the main villain in your stead, you're not getting top honors. While I respect his plot, I absolutely think FF13 would've been better off had they left Jihl as its villain rather than suddenly kill her off just to unmask Barthandelus. He was brought in so late as a result, and I would've liked for him to have had more meat to him, you know? His evil plan was great and well-thought-out, but he was sorely lacking in the personality department. Jihl, by comparison, already had plenty of it that we were seeing (the bulk of it coming out when she started freaking out over the party breaking through the Palamecia's defenses).
3. Seymour: Yes, Bob. Yes, Fleck. I consider him the main villain of FF10. Not Jecht. Not Sin. (And so does FF Wiki.) If you're not directly opposing the party at almost every step, or destroying the world unintentionally, you ain't the main opposing force. You only are if you are intentionally looking to rule or destroy the world. But anyway, probably one of the more fleshed-out villains, I actually enjoyed what Seymour brought to FF10. I liked a lot of his lines before Tidus and the rest of the party's battles with him, and I even liked his delusions. Largely because as misguided as he was, I still totally got what he was after. He was actually someone who genuinely thought that he'd be helping Spira by destroying it and saving everyone from further pain that Sin brought them. Granted, it was "totally nuts," as Tidus called it, but still, I totally got what he was driving at. It wasn't anything that made me basically say, "WTF?!" about it. So for having an understandable method to his madness, Seymour gets number three. And only number three because he actually didn't come anywhere near getting to his goals. And for more trivial matters, I also liked his evil laugh, even if it was a bit higher-pitched than most villains' laughs.
Cons? All of his unnecessary kills -- Kinoc, Kelk, most of the other Ronso, you name it. But that's pretty much it.
4. Sephiroth: I'm honestly surprised I'm ranking him in the top half, but I am. But it's not for personality reasons. I've just gotta admire someone who could so ably control the situation and get his main target of manipulation to oh-so-easily give him the means of destroying The Planet. That was . . . something to be seen.
So many cons to list, but I'll list them, anyway. Like I said, his personality? Hated it. Hated the reason he went crazy. Hated most of the other things he did. And then, the one crucial thing he did that I've NEVER forgiven. Killing poor Aeris and then having the gall to SMILE over it. So . . . yeah. Not a fan of him otherwise, for all of those reasons.
5. Ultimecia: The thing I kinda liked about Ultimecia and thought was interesting about her is that for years, I thought she was completely tacked on as a villain, but then came to realize, after giving it some thought, that she really was there all along. We saw hints of who she was, personality-wise, through her possession of Edea. The possessed Edea actually acted more like Ultimecia and exhibited her particular taste in Victorian-style dress and artwork. She actually talked like her (save for the "c" sounds being "k" sounds instead). And yet, Squall and the party, despite knowing Edea from their youth, never guessed that anything was wrong. It was an interesting way of hiding her. So for this interesting new way of revealing the villain alone, I've put the sorceress from the future at number five.
Cons, though? Well, two. She still should've seen a lot sooner than she was. And as I played FF8, I still didn't quite get what her plot was. I don't think it was ever even hinted at. It took reading FF Wiki to figure out why she was obsessed with taking down SeeD. FF's first major female villain was good in theory, but needed a lot more done in practice to make her more viable as the villain. Due to these gripes, I almost would've just had Adel be behind things, controlling everything despite being sealed in space.
6. Kuja: To be honest, six through nine is where I get to my more interchangeable villains. I did appreciate a lot of what Kuja did in FF9. You can say what you will about him, but he got shit done. He got Brahne to declare war on kingdoms, kill people, and disrupt the world's flow of souls. He stole eidolons. He took control of them with just a single airship. And he made one of the biggest, best power shifts by overthrowing Brahne the way he did. He also managed to get Zidane and the party to do his dirty work for him in getting the Gulug Stone from Oeilvert with pretty much no resistance. And he was as cool as a cucumber the entire time.
Cons? Well, yes. One of them being the times he wasn't as cool as a cucumber. I think Kuja's probably the villain who had more panicky moments than others. Mainly the times he was eager and desperate to stop Garland from taking his soul away from him, or replacing it with that of someone from Terra. Also, when he started to lose his cool with Zorn and Thorn on Mt. Gulug. And let's not forget his crybaby breakdown and subsequent descent into madness when he learned of his own impending mortality. Too bad all of these happened, because he would've been great without them. Oh, and while I'm at this, I still very much resent that, once he overthrew Brahne, the entire rest of FF9's story basically just became Zidane vs. Kuja.
7. Vayne: His low ranking is not to say that I dislike him. Quite the opposite. I quite liked Vayne. He was another master manipulator who pretty much fooled almost everyone into buying what he was selling. Also, I found it kinda neat that he was both the second main villain to commit patricide (first being Seymour), actually made no bones about it, and, unlike Seymour, actually offed the person who found out and tried to do something about it (Drace). And I actually dug his overall design. And the fact that without him, there'd be no Larsa to be getting shit done to try and get to the bottom of what he was doing and then actively oppose his efforts with the help of Vaan and the party.
However, I've reached the cons to him. They didn't really draw out his plot enough. I felt like I went through the whole game with no clear idea of what Vayne was after. FF Wiki (and Bob) had to clear that up for me. Probably more glaring was that after his early appearance in FF12, when he talked to Migelo, I totally forgot that he was even in the game (save for the occasional mentions) until he finally popped up in a cutscene over halfway through the game. The best villains are seen a lot more often in addition to being mentions. Also, when there's someone who would've been a better main villain then you, you weren't the best choice on the designers' part. Easily, Dr. Cid, who actually had a connection to one of the party members (Balthier), or perhaps one of the judges (maybe Ghis, since he was introduced early enough) should've been the main villain of FF12, IMO. I liked Vayne as a villain for sure. But . . . just not the main one.
8. Exdeath: The bottom two are main as such because I feel like there could've been more done with them, but there just wasn't. Still, Exdeath is kept out of the bottom spot just for being the first villain to actually permanently kill off a party member (though Sephiroth was the first to permanently kill off a party member and her abilities, while Exdeath's killing just resulted in his victim's abilities being transferred to someone else). Oh, and actually merging the world back together as its original form after it'd previously been divided into two different worlds. That was definitely a surprise. Ah, and for being the first villain to actually come anywhere close to ruling the world (by sending most places into the Void). Caused a mess of trouble for Bartz and the party.
Still, there are cons. He's really not developed beyond being a warlock who was trapped in a tree. Or was he the tree itself? I don't know, and they don't really make it clear. But basically, he's one-dimensional. All he talks about is the Void. There's nothing else to him. There's just no "there" there. Even more so in the Dissidia games, when he's only obsessed with fighting and killing Bartz and Kain. Still, he's more of a villain than the next one.
9. Golbez: About the only things I like about Golbez are that he does set himself up as a force to be reckoned with by Cecil and the party early on with his destruction of Damcyan and Fabul, and that he's the first villain to actually be linked to a party member (Cecil). And the fact that he was strong enough to take control of Kain so many times and so easily was another thing to be seen. But that's about it.
The main con I have with him is this. If you're really only the villain because you're possessed by a much stronger, more sinister force, can you really be called a villain? I think Zemus or Zeromus or whatever he's called just should've been the villain from the beginning instead of just using Golbez.
I left out the Shadow Lord (FF11) and Nael (FF14) because they're the main villains of the online FFs. And let's face it. I know Bob and I don't play the online games. And I'm fairly sure Fleck, Count, and Wyvern don't, either. So even though I actually know a fair bit about both of them, I know all of you don't, so I left them out. But I'll add them in if you think it'd be necessary.
But anyway, these are just my rankings. How about everyone else's?
After ranking all of the main playable characters in each FF game from 4 through 13, I'm now making a poll on which you can all rank the people most opposed to the characters: the main villains and antagonists of each game. The ones whom I looked up and got confirmation were the ACTUAL main villains and antagonists of their games. Some were developed very well, while others were not. Some were awesome, some were lame, and some were somewhere in between. Some had fantastic evil plots to destroy their worlds, and some had pretty mild ones. And some worked just fine as the main villains, while some would probably have been better off passing the torch to better, more awesome villains in their games.
Where do they rank for you? Here are mine:
1. Kefka: Numbers one and two were both pretty close for me, because hey, you've gotta give some props to the villains who actually did accomplish their goals (or the vast majority of them). I put the clown up at the top because of one main reason. He was the ONLY one to definitively take over the world. Yes, he only held onto his reign for a year, but in FF, even that's a long time! Also, it was interesting that he was one of the only two constantly-fought villains who actually got stronger as Terra and the others fought him throughout the game. Also, the moment he overthrew Gestahl was a HUGE turning point in FF6. Also, the "self-help booklet" remark prior to the final battle was hilarious!
There are some cons to him, though. For starters, his theme didn't real sound all that evil. It sounded as clownish as he looked. Also, as much as it did the trick in demonstrating just how crazy and evil he was . . . I never could get over Doma. That was extreme and totally unnecessary.
2. Barthandelus: The Lord Sovereign Fal'Cie rules above all (well, all but one) mainly for his evil plan. I mean, he pretty much lays out for Lightning and the rest of the party exactly what their Focus is (destroying Cocoon by killing Orphan). They all resolve not to do that. Yet instead of just waiting for their brands to fully advance so they could go Cie'th, they . . . get masterfully spurned on by Barthandelus and eventually wind up doing exactly what they resolved not to do. Seriously. The guy had a plan, and he manipulated every single thing to make sure it was seen through. I don't know how he was able to get them to forget all about their resolve to not go through with things, but he did, and that? Is bad-ass. Plus, as a more trivial thing, I've recently come to positively love a good evil laugh, and his voice actor gave him the BEST evil laugh a villain could have in the series, bar none. (IMO, at least.) You really get the evil vibe from him almost entirely due to it.
The cons to him, though? Well, if I'm thinking that at least one of the other villains would've been better as the main villain in your stead, you're not getting top honors. While I respect his plot, I absolutely think FF13 would've been better off had they left Jihl as its villain rather than suddenly kill her off just to unmask Barthandelus. He was brought in so late as a result, and I would've liked for him to have had more meat to him, you know? His evil plan was great and well-thought-out, but he was sorely lacking in the personality department. Jihl, by comparison, already had plenty of it that we were seeing (the bulk of it coming out when she started freaking out over the party breaking through the Palamecia's defenses).
3. Seymour: Yes, Bob. Yes, Fleck. I consider him the main villain of FF10. Not Jecht. Not Sin. (And so does FF Wiki.) If you're not directly opposing the party at almost every step, or destroying the world unintentionally, you ain't the main opposing force. You only are if you are intentionally looking to rule or destroy the world. But anyway, probably one of the more fleshed-out villains, I actually enjoyed what Seymour brought to FF10. I liked a lot of his lines before Tidus and the rest of the party's battles with him, and I even liked his delusions. Largely because as misguided as he was, I still totally got what he was after. He was actually someone who genuinely thought that he'd be helping Spira by destroying it and saving everyone from further pain that Sin brought them. Granted, it was "totally nuts," as Tidus called it, but still, I totally got what he was driving at. It wasn't anything that made me basically say, "WTF?!" about it. So for having an understandable method to his madness, Seymour gets number three. And only number three because he actually didn't come anywhere near getting to his goals. And for more trivial matters, I also liked his evil laugh, even if it was a bit higher-pitched than most villains' laughs.
Cons? All of his unnecessary kills -- Kinoc, Kelk, most of the other Ronso, you name it. But that's pretty much it.
4. Sephiroth: I'm honestly surprised I'm ranking him in the top half, but I am. But it's not for personality reasons. I've just gotta admire someone who could so ably control the situation and get his main target of manipulation to oh-so-easily give him the means of destroying The Planet. That was . . . something to be seen.
So many cons to list, but I'll list them, anyway. Like I said, his personality? Hated it. Hated the reason he went crazy. Hated most of the other things he did. And then, the one crucial thing he did that I've NEVER forgiven. Killing poor Aeris and then having the gall to SMILE over it. So . . . yeah. Not a fan of him otherwise, for all of those reasons.
5. Ultimecia: The thing I kinda liked about Ultimecia and thought was interesting about her is that for years, I thought she was completely tacked on as a villain, but then came to realize, after giving it some thought, that she really was there all along. We saw hints of who she was, personality-wise, through her possession of Edea. The possessed Edea actually acted more like Ultimecia and exhibited her particular taste in Victorian-style dress and artwork. She actually talked like her (save for the "c" sounds being "k" sounds instead). And yet, Squall and the party, despite knowing Edea from their youth, never guessed that anything was wrong. It was an interesting way of hiding her. So for this interesting new way of revealing the villain alone, I've put the sorceress from the future at number five.
Cons, though? Well, two. She still should've seen a lot sooner than she was. And as I played FF8, I still didn't quite get what her plot was. I don't think it was ever even hinted at. It took reading FF Wiki to figure out why she was obsessed with taking down SeeD. FF's first major female villain was good in theory, but needed a lot more done in practice to make her more viable as the villain. Due to these gripes, I almost would've just had Adel be behind things, controlling everything despite being sealed in space.
6. Kuja: To be honest, six through nine is where I get to my more interchangeable villains. I did appreciate a lot of what Kuja did in FF9. You can say what you will about him, but he got shit done. He got Brahne to declare war on kingdoms, kill people, and disrupt the world's flow of souls. He stole eidolons. He took control of them with just a single airship. And he made one of the biggest, best power shifts by overthrowing Brahne the way he did. He also managed to get Zidane and the party to do his dirty work for him in getting the Gulug Stone from Oeilvert with pretty much no resistance. And he was as cool as a cucumber the entire time.
Cons? Well, yes. One of them being the times he wasn't as cool as a cucumber. I think Kuja's probably the villain who had more panicky moments than others. Mainly the times he was eager and desperate to stop Garland from taking his soul away from him, or replacing it with that of someone from Terra. Also, when he started to lose his cool with Zorn and Thorn on Mt. Gulug. And let's not forget his crybaby breakdown and subsequent descent into madness when he learned of his own impending mortality. Too bad all of these happened, because he would've been great without them. Oh, and while I'm at this, I still very much resent that, once he overthrew Brahne, the entire rest of FF9's story basically just became Zidane vs. Kuja.
7. Vayne: His low ranking is not to say that I dislike him. Quite the opposite. I quite liked Vayne. He was another master manipulator who pretty much fooled almost everyone into buying what he was selling. Also, I found it kinda neat that he was both the second main villain to commit patricide (first being Seymour), actually made no bones about it, and, unlike Seymour, actually offed the person who found out and tried to do something about it (Drace). And I actually dug his overall design. And the fact that without him, there'd be no Larsa to be getting shit done to try and get to the bottom of what he was doing and then actively oppose his efforts with the help of Vaan and the party.
However, I've reached the cons to him. They didn't really draw out his plot enough. I felt like I went through the whole game with no clear idea of what Vayne was after. FF Wiki (and Bob) had to clear that up for me. Probably more glaring was that after his early appearance in FF12, when he talked to Migelo, I totally forgot that he was even in the game (save for the occasional mentions) until he finally popped up in a cutscene over halfway through the game. The best villains are seen a lot more often in addition to being mentions. Also, when there's someone who would've been a better main villain then you, you weren't the best choice on the designers' part. Easily, Dr. Cid, who actually had a connection to one of the party members (Balthier), or perhaps one of the judges (maybe Ghis, since he was introduced early enough) should've been the main villain of FF12, IMO. I liked Vayne as a villain for sure. But . . . just not the main one.
8. Exdeath: The bottom two are main as such because I feel like there could've been more done with them, but there just wasn't. Still, Exdeath is kept out of the bottom spot just for being the first villain to actually permanently kill off a party member (though Sephiroth was the first to permanently kill off a party member and her abilities, while Exdeath's killing just resulted in his victim's abilities being transferred to someone else). Oh, and actually merging the world back together as its original form after it'd previously been divided into two different worlds. That was definitely a surprise. Ah, and for being the first villain to actually come anywhere close to ruling the world (by sending most places into the Void). Caused a mess of trouble for Bartz and the party.
Still, there are cons. He's really not developed beyond being a warlock who was trapped in a tree. Or was he the tree itself? I don't know, and they don't really make it clear. But basically, he's one-dimensional. All he talks about is the Void. There's nothing else to him. There's just no "there" there. Even more so in the Dissidia games, when he's only obsessed with fighting and killing Bartz and Kain. Still, he's more of a villain than the next one.
9. Golbez: About the only things I like about Golbez are that he does set himself up as a force to be reckoned with by Cecil and the party early on with his destruction of Damcyan and Fabul, and that he's the first villain to actually be linked to a party member (Cecil). And the fact that he was strong enough to take control of Kain so many times and so easily was another thing to be seen. But that's about it.
The main con I have with him is this. If you're really only the villain because you're possessed by a much stronger, more sinister force, can you really be called a villain? I think Zemus or Zeromus or whatever he's called just should've been the villain from the beginning instead of just using Golbez.
I left out the Shadow Lord (FF11) and Nael (FF14) because they're the main villains of the online FFs. And let's face it. I know Bob and I don't play the online games. And I'm fairly sure Fleck, Count, and Wyvern don't, either. So even though I actually know a fair bit about both of them, I know all of you don't, so I left them out. But I'll add them in if you think it'd be necessary.
But anyway, these are just my rankings. How about everyone else's?
