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Post by Bob on Dec 2, 2011 16:57:21 GMT -8
I'm leaving this ambiguous and up to discussion, but I was thinking about it the other day. What/who is the best Superboss of any Final Fantasy? DISCUSS!
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Post by Fleck on Dec 2, 2011 18:41:06 GMT -8
There are so many good candidates to choose from. I think, for sheer difficulty and the numerous strategies one can employ to beat him, I'd say Emerald Weapon for FF7 is my favorite, and the best. Pretty much everyone and their dog has a strategy to beat him, and they're all valid, yet Emerald still manages to be one of the toughest around. As opposed to most other superbosses who manage to be tough because they only have one surefire way of beating them. Emerald, to me, wins for being the best thought-out, balanced, and designed.
Honorable mention to Nemesis from FF10. Nemesis himself isn't all that hard, but it's such a long and rewarding quest to get to him that your characters are basically gods at the end. Nemesis feels like Sauron or Voldemort: he's the final baddy at the end of a long, grueling journey. He's basically the final boss of his own game, really. And unlike Trema in X-2, the grueling journey to get to him still manages to be fun and engaging, instead of 100 freaking floors of the exact same nonsense over and over until you go crazy.
Dishonorable mentions to Ozma and Hades from FF9 for not being remotely "super," in fact being pretty much as easy, if not easier than, the final boss, which is a sin for all super bosses. Also Trema for being a douche and requiring a prerequisite boss battle right before him to soften you up. And for being at the end of a 100 floor dungeon. What a douche.
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Post by Bob on Dec 2, 2011 21:26:50 GMT -8
And now that I'm not the first to speak, I'll give my thoughts! I haven't thought about it much, but here goes. Agreed that Emerald is a good one. Probably not my favorite, but he's good for two reasons: being hard as crap and being FRIGHTENING on the map. I dunno about you, but I'm always nervous when I'm scooting around underwater. Just worried as shit that Emerald will engage me. Deathgaze (FF6) had this effect, too, so honorable mention to him as well. I think Ruby is too much of a prick, so he's far from a favorite. I don't like fighting with only one person for fear of having people sucked out of the fight. Yeah, you can get them back, but if the fight goes long enough, he reverts back and starts knocking people out of the fight. I give props to FF5's Omega for being a mini-boss in disguise. I thought for a long time he was impossible and you just had to avoid him. It was only in my super game when I fought and beat him that I was like "...oh, I could DO that?" Awesome. I kind of like FF8's superbosses, even though they're retardedly fast. Ultima Weapon is such a toughie. I remember fighting him a couple times and always barely surviving and almost not drawing Eden for the reason of barely survival. One time the ONLY way I could take a break from survival was when Rinoa got an Invincible Moon, otherwise I probably would've missed Eden ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) FF8's Omega Weapon is decent, but a bit too....cheap/predictable. I don't like when games make memorizing patterns the only way to survive, and this fight he really likes to do his "Drop you to 1" attack, followed by his strongest attack, so you're basically required to have 9999 life and Leviathan's Recover (and/or Alexander's Revive). FF9....lacked, yes. Ozma IS harder than the final boss though. My latest playthrough I was under-leveled and Ozma was kicking my ass. I even had some absorb-shadow stuff on, but he killed me without shadow attacks. So he's tough, but he's cheap and a huge problem is that he's that hybrid of WAY too hard or WAY too easy. Once you hit a certain level (and visit all the friendly monsters), he's a pushover. Before that, he's impossible. And Hades just sucks all around. Yiazmat and Omega (FF12) were lame superbosses. Yiazmat isn't all that hard, but he's hella time-consuming. Blah. And Omega can be beaten with a simple gambit setup (Life -> Reverse -> Attack). I think I'd go for Nemesis as my favorite. He's really hard and requires you're at the top of your game, really. If you master the Sphere Grid, you still are in for some disaster. The way to make Nemesis possible is by filling in all the blank nodes on the Sphere Grid, having all characters master the grid, and possibly using clear spheres to get rid of low-benefit nodes. And like Fleck says, he is basically his own game. Post game when you're just hunting monsters and trying to beat all those damned Original Creations, he's the boss of all of that, which is cool. Wish I could've played FFX International for Penance. I hear he's tough. Anybody fought Penance? Oh, and agreed on Trema. He's actually not THAT tough, bue fighting him right after a tough fight makes it hard. I like the idea....but no. Especially with the cutscene between that fight and him (and the fact that FFX-2 HATES when you skip scenes or even dialogue). I forget anybody? I'm not really counting Kaiser from FF6 Advance. I don't remember him much and that's probably a bad thing.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 3, 2011 10:52:47 GMT -8
It's hard to choose a superboss, but I like Emerald Weapon myself. He's tough as hell, but not cheap in any way, allowing for you to beat him with multiple strategies. I also like that he kinda forces you to limit your materia to like 4-5 per character in order to survive his Aire Tam Storm with reasonable health, which requires you to really think about what materia you need to bring into the fight. Actual strategy goes into fighting him. Ruby Weapon is just lame.
I've got the international version of FFX, but have never fought Penance. The Dark Aeons starting at Bahamut are ridiculously strong (and Ifrit - Shiva are hardly pushovers), and I just found that I didn't feel like grinding SO much just to be essentially 255 in every stat in order to win. Completing the Sphere grid and getting all ultimate weapons was enough for me. Except Lulu's sigil, fuck that. While you COULD beat Penance and any of the Dark Aeon fights using only Yojimbo, doing that felt like giving up. One day I would like to try and fight Penance and all the Dark Aeons legitimately though. Maybe this summer.
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Post by Fleck on Dec 3, 2011 14:12:00 GMT -8
I was thinking about giving Omega an honorable mention, but there's a trick to beating him (he's weak against thunder), so I felt he was disqualified. Once you know his secret, he's not terribly "super" at all.
Also, Squeenix really has to stop doing the "certain locations get updated versions and the other regions get NOTHING HAHAHAHA" because that's a lot of crap. Supposedly X International, X-2 International, and I think it was called 12 International were all better than their original releases, especially the update for 12. But none of those ever came to the US. I think SE is passive-aggressively getting back at us for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
"You drop bomb. We no drop game!"
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 3, 2011 16:31:43 GMT -8
Seems fair ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Bob on Dec 4, 2011 15:29:37 GMT -8
I wouldn't mind Emerald quite so much had I KNOWN that was why Aire Tam Storm did so much damage to me all the time. Is there anything in the game that helps you figure that out? Not that it mattered much for me. I always load up on materia for that because he's got so much damn AP. I also hated that Emerald used an ATS to interrupt my turn. I did a W-Summon of KotR and he used ATS in the MIDDLE of the two summons. WTF?
You know, maxing stats in FFX really doesn't even take long. I suppose getting a few of the spheres can take time since you have to overkill so many original creations and such, but it's not as time consuming as you'd think. Same with getting Lulu's sigil. It's frustrating to lose it, but you just find that spot where lightning strikes twice in a row and you can really have the thing in about ten minutes. I just recommend occasionally camping out by a tower and stretching your eyes. And of course, no-encounters is mandatory.
And yes, I'm pissed about International releases, too. Sometimes, the best part of FFs is the superboss(es) (hence this thread), so it's lame when they add a new boss to a version I don't have. And even if I got a copy of said version, I'd have to start all over from the beginning. I so want to fight Dark Aeons and Penance, but I don't feel like playing through FFX all over again (though maybe someday, since that game rocks the house).
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Post by Fleck on Dec 4, 2011 21:38:28 GMT -8
Your only hint for Emerald, so far as I'm aware, is that "Aire Tam" is "Materia" spelled backwards. Which isn't much of a hint, but I guess it's possible to figure it out from there, if you're really obsessive (I only know that because of FAQs).
And yeah, I was surpised how fast you can max your stats in FFX. Also, in order to beat Nemesis, you only need to max Strength and Agility. Enough strength to hurt him and enough agility to get in a few Quick Attacks in between his attacks. Spam Auto-Revives and Quick Attacks until he's dead. If you're quick enough, that strategy is almost unbeatable.
And for Lulu, I eventually found this one little hill near the Rest Stop where the lightning struck pretty consistently, and I could get a rhythm. So long as you don't get distracted or zone out, it's really not that hard to get her sigil.
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Post by Bob on Dec 4, 2011 22:40:37 GMT -8
.....You just blew my mind with that "Materia backwards" stuff. Like...BANG. Mind blown. Right out the back of my head.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Dec 5, 2011 1:52:00 GMT -8
Haha. I'm surprised you didn't know that Bob! I don't think any of us actually worked it out playing the game, but its definitely one of those 'OHHHHHHHH' moments when you hear about it online.
Stupid official strategy guide didn't even mention that though. It just said you had to have final attack-phoenix or something ¬_¬. Then again, that guide didn't tell you how to get chocobuckle either.
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Post by Bob on Dec 5, 2011 6:48:18 GMT -8
I just told my sister about this (both the materia causing 1111 damage and the Aire Tam = Materia things) and her mind is blown as well. And, among other things, she said, "I thought it was some crazy Irish attack, yaknow, since it was Emerald Weapon."
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Post by Fleck on Dec 5, 2011 13:17:27 GMT -8
"Aye! Gonna Aire Tam Storm ya, laddy!"
And yeah, the official strategy guide was such crap. Their solution to everything was "Final Attack + Revive." And then they didn't even tell you how to get Final Attack. If I remember right, all it says is that it's a "prize from the Battle Square," but doesn't tell you anything more than that. Stupid BradyGames.
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Post by Bob on Dec 5, 2011 16:36:18 GMT -8
I missed Final Attack one game. That pissed me off. I don't know how! It's a prize in the battle square, right? (been a long time since the FF7) You beat the special battle and you get it! Prize = you! But this one game? Nope. But oh well. I think I missed Vincent's good shit that game anyway, so fuck that save slot. In the butt.
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Post by Fleck on Dec 5, 2011 19:41:47 GMT -8
I never used Final Attack. It's way too damn hard to get, and then it's not that useful unless you level the hell out of it. What's the point of one Final Attack materia on one person when you're up against Emerald Weapon? "Hooray, I survived an extra 20 seconds. Whoopie." Final Attack + Phoenix might be interesting, but even that won't help you much. The only way Final Attack is really helpful is if you level to the point where you don't need it in the first place. So yeah, I only got it once in all the times I've played FF7 and I never cared enough to get it again.
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Post by Bob on Dec 5, 2011 19:51:09 GMT -8
Humor is the point! False hope!
"Ha HA! Emerald Weapon! I may die now, but look! My whole team is BACK! Mwa ha ha ha h--" *STOMP* ".....Fuck!"
I always love when your guy is ready to cast Phoenix from his final attack, only to find that Emerald Weapon sapped the crap out of his/her MP and it's hopeless. MMM good times!
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