Survivor (Spoilers)

[Fleck]

Here's the thread where we can talk about Survivor and have all the spoilers we want. Resume discussion.... NOW!

[countlieberkuhn]

Probably a good idea for us to separate this from Silent Hill-related things anyway.

ANYWAY, while yes, Ben was right to a certain degree about her being ghetto trash, he could have phrased it way better. But in addition, he was just pissing off everyone, having his little midnight tantrum and hitting that log with his machete while people tried to sleep, and generally getting in arguments with people. Particularly Jiason, who is a genuinely nice bloke. Although he does just seem like a vastly inferior James in just about every regard. Jiason is probably smarter, but James could probably diffuse any social situation, and he was way better at the survival aspect. Plus James is just better with women from what I can tell, which is an added advantage. Except when that woman is Parvati.

Edit: Forgot to mention this, but Dave if fucking ZEN! Seriously, the way he just took his time, shushed everyone so he could focus, and then landed the ball literally touching the pole, was epic. The dude was like a Jedi. I love watching Russell play, but I think Dave might be my favourite right now. I hope he does well. He seems to have his game playing down too. Not blowing his own trumpet too much, just being that quiet guy who gets shit done when he needs to, but still being on the 'inside'. Unlike Shambo.

God, Shambo. She's an ex-marine, but she seems more to me to be just like one of those useless summer camp hosts. You know, the ones you see in films who think that they have a way with nature and survival techniques, yet always screws up when they actually NEED those skills to survive. And is always obnoxiously buddy-buddy to boot. I can't believe she broke the scuba gear AND lost a chicken

[Fleck]

Man, I do not remember Jaison at all. Then again, most of the people besides Russell get kinda tossed to the side. One of the downsides of Samoa is the fact that it's basically Survivor: Russell, and everyone else is just side characters. Granted, Russell is interesting as hell, but I like seeing more than one perspective.

EDIT: Oh, wait. Now I remember him. Yeah, he's not one of my favorites.

Dave's okay, I guess. He never really struck me as a strong player, either physically, mentally, or socially. Maybe that was his strategy, but when you have colorful people like Russell and Shambo playing the game, it's hard to be noticed.

Aww... but I loved Shambo . I really started to dislike her when she went through her screw-up streak, losing the chicken, breaking the scuba gear, but she kinda grows on you. She has the advantage of being one of the few friendly and honest players in a season chock full of liars and bastards (and Russell). But yeah, Shambo was kind of a disgrace to the Marines. When she said she was ex-Marine, I expected her to kick all kinds of ass, but she's really not much more physical than any of the other women. I still like her nickname though. "Shambo" just sounds funny and awesome.

[countlieberkuhn]

Haha yeah. If Shambo was deserving of such an awesome nickname, I'd be right behind her. She just needs to back up her claims as to what she can do.

One thing I really like about Russell Hantz is just how good he is in challenges. He doesn't look physically fit - he's got a bit of a belly and a lot more fat than muscle. But every time he plays he tears it up! On that challenge where they had to cross that rope bridge thing, he sprinted across that like a ninja. On the coconut basket challenge, the dude held on for ages - while black Russell was struggling towards the end, white Russell was still valiantly holding onto way more before finally falling. Same goes for Liz though - for a small girl, she held on a long time.

But you're right, there are a fair amount of bland 'side characters' in this season. But after watching fans versus favourites, it's probably to be expected. The favourites were favourites for a reason, and all played very well and had big personalities.

[Fleck]

Yeah, I don't think Russell would be as successful as he is if he wasn't good in challenges. It kind of mutes the fact that he's completely playing everyone. Also it gives him the ability to criticize other people's effort. One thing I always hate is when people bitch about other people not pulling their weight... and then they go off and take a nap.

But not Russell. He is there to friggin play, and he puts everything into his challenges and his strategy. That, I think, is what makes him really cool. He's not just a manipulative, heartless bastard; he's also a great Survivor.

Man, I'm eager for you to get further in the season. Samoa is notable for a couple reasons, but most of the notable things don't happen until the middle or the end of the season. Hurry up and watch more!

[countlieberkuhn]

I'm getting to it! I gotta fit in sleep somewhere, it's 7:15 am here Then I'm on a holiday from university and am not working right now, and usually what happens is I become kinda nocturnal. I had a summer holiday once when I was younger where I slept later and later each day, until it became full circle and I started waking up at 8am.

[Fleck]

Huh. I guess I always thought the Atlantic was bigger, or at least had more time zones, because it's 1:20 AM here. Since I almost never open at TRU anymore, (and now that TRU doesn't open at 6 in the friggin morning anymore) I'm taking advantage of that by, like you, turning nocturnal. Nighttime is just so much more peaceful. If I'm left completely without any responsibilities or anything (like I was for most of 2011) then I usually go to bed around 5 or 6 am, just before the sun rises.

So I take it that it's seven AM and you still haven't gone to bed? Naughty boy.

But yeah, once I got into Survivor, I totally went on a Survivor binge. I was unemployed at the time and I had enough spare time to just watch episode after episode. I really like this show. Even the bad seasons are good.

It's a shame that this youtube guy doesn't have the more recent seasons up. You could probably skip Redemption Island (it had its moments, but was kind of a disappointment overall), but South Pacific was totally worth watching, after it got over its rocky start. I'm currently working on the first season of Survivor and man... it's such a different show.

[countlieberkuhn]

Was going to go to bed, but I'm still up! 7:52 am now. You're right, night time is so much more peaceful. I'm the kinda guy who thrives on entertaining myself, so it suits me just fine.

I'm definitely going to watch Heroes vs Villains after Samoa because I expect it'll have a much bigger cast of personalities in it, then I'll see where I am. I'm free til January 26th and have no work that needs to be done before next semester so I may well end up watching afterwards.

So how is season 1 different? Is it the same concept but handled more clumsily, or are there a load of elements to it that have been phased out of later seasons because they simply didn't work?

[Fleck]

I think you might appreciate Heroes Vs Villains even more than I did, because you'll know a lot more people. I started watching Survivor with that season, so there were no familiar faces for me. But yeah, HvV was just an epic season. Not only were the personalities great, but there were great plays, great strategy, and there was a lot of human nature as well. It was really fascinating to watch the "heroes" versus "villains." Some people embraced their roles, some people were like, "wait... I really don't deserve to be a villain." There was just so much going on in that season. And it has Russell and Boston Rob, and a lot of the original villains, and Parvati, and Cirie, and James and so many awesome players. I don't think they can ever top that season.

Season 1 is different, because it's a lot more stripped down. The premise is really the whole show. "People on an island, have to work together to survive." There's no "game" at this point, as everyone really is just trying to make it through each day. "Are you helping us catch fish or build a shelter? Yes or no?" The production values are a lot lower as well, and challenges are pretty basic, like "light fires" or "eat bugs." So really, the whole thing is very basic, so there's not much point in being really strong for challenges, because the challenges don't amount to a whole lot. It's still interesting to watch. Like I said, even the bad seasons are good.

[countlieberkuhn]

Fair enough, it's good that the show has progressed though! I always loved shows with physical challenges - each challenge seems like it's from the Crystal Maze and worked to be playable by whole teams, if you guys ever had that across the pond.

Also, just watched the bit where black Russell fainted and got taken out of the game. Poor guy! He was one of the stronger personalities on Gula tribe. Kudos to Jeff Probst though, I think he's always good at handling situations where people have to be removed from the game, and is a great presenter overall. I don't think anyone else could do it better really - he just gels so nicely with the overall feel of it.

[Fleck]

Crystal Maze? Haven't heard of it. I think the closest we ever had was American Gladiators, or Legends of the Hidden Temple.

I think Jeff is a great presenter as well, but he kinda grew into the role, as evidenced by season 1. In S1 he just comes off as a little awkward. It's clear that he's kinda learning the ropes along with the survivors, and he's got his lines memorized and he's shuffling through them like a kid giving a class presentation on WW2. He's also not as energetic as he is in more recent seasons. Really, the whole feel of the show is totally different.

One thing I noticed about Jeff though is that he really doesn't have much patience for quitters. Which is understandable, but it's kind of weird to see him suddenly act cold to one of the survivors. I won't mention which season, but there is a season with a somewhat infamous quitter (they actually changed a rule after that season, because of the quitter), and Jeff was actually kind of a jerk towards that person. He even went as far as to poke fun at the person during the reunion show.

All right, must sleep. Talk to you later.

[countlieberkuhn]

Really? That surprises me - when Kathy went out in the Micronesia season in tears, I thought he handled it really well. And honestly, she didn't have to put up with nearly the amount of stuff the guys in Somoa do. Samoa's constant torrential rain is just brutal, making Micronesia survival look easy by comparison. But regardless, Jeff was nice and handled it well. Although he couldn't really be a jerk to a woman who had just totally broken down really, even if she was kinda dumb for thinking she could handle it in the first place It doesn't surprise me that he poked fun at the person in the reunion show though - he tends to say things how they are in a very blunt manner. Which is great for squeezing out a little extra tension in those tribal councils, asking the questions none of the tribesmen had wanted to ask themselves. But man did he pull no punches towards little Erik, quite boldly saying he was the dumbest, most naive survivor ever.

The quitter you talked about, was it before or after Micronesia? Answer when you have awakened!

[Fleck]

I have awakened! And it's after Micronesia.

Yeah, Jeff was comparatively nice to Kathy. I guess it depends on the circumstances and the person. Because I know that Jeff hates Jonny Fairplay (apparently there was an incident at a Survivor party), and Jeff has gone on the record saying that Fairplay wasn't invited back to Heroes vs Villains because, "It's called Heroes vs Villains, not Survivor: Quitters." So yeah, I guess if you tick Jeff off by quitting, he'll let you have it.

And yeah, Samoa was one of the most brutal seasons, weather-wise. It's like God himself was battling Russell (and Russell was winning). But that all just goes to make Russell look even more awesome. You wouldn't expect a millionaire to shrug off torrential rain and starvation so easily, but he manages it.

[countlieberkuhn]

Yeah, you'd expect a rich bastard to be totally unprepared to handle the elements, but he handles it like a boss! Everyone else is curled up in shelter and shivering, and he's going out for a swim. I like that Samoa has brutal weather though, as the show is called 'Survivor'. Battling the elements should be one of the main aspects to separate the men from the boys.

[Fleck]

So, I just finished Survivor: Borneo, aka the first season of Survivor. Like I was saying before, it was a little weird to watch at first, because of how simple and unformed the game was. But it was still fascinating to watch, because you're literally watching the game of Survivor be created. In the first few episodes, the survivors have nothing to go on except for "win immunity challenges or go home." There are no alliances, no one's thinking deep into the game, and everyone is voting their conscience. There was one tribal council, I forget which one, but I think six different names came up, because no one was talking to anyone else about their votes, so the votes were totally scattershot.

It was weird, but one of the cool things about the first season was how open and honest it was. Everyone bonded, and there were no real rivalries or enemies. One survivor was so utterly incapable of choosing who to vote out that he started casting his votes in alphabetical order. Tribal Councils were odd, because instead of bickering and arguing and defending themselves, everyone is laughing and joking, teasing each other, playing around with Jeff. It's an entirely different vibe from what tribal councils would become later in the game. It's almost sad to know that the innocence of the original show has been thoroughly trampled, to the point where even discussing ideas like "vote your conscience" or "stay away from alliances" has now become so dated as to be laughable.

I guess we have Richard Hatch to thank for the game of Survivor. He was the first person to go to the island and think of it as a game, not as an adventure or as a test of himself. He came to play, he formed the very first alliance in survivor, and he created the original standard from which all other seasons would eventually take their cues from.

Anyway, there were some minor annoyances in the first season, as they worked out the bugs and kinks. A lot of the challenges were rather dull, and their objectives were often either vague or subjective. The goals were often poorly defined, and several of the challenges ended with people looking around going, "wait... did I win?" because things were very close. Luckily, the first cast of Survivor was very honest, because there were plenty of opportunities to cheat or exploit the system.

Also, you know that horn (I think it's a conch shell) that plays right before the opening theme? Someone thought it would be a good idea to play that horn every time there was a scene transition.

BROOOOO
Tagi Tribe
BROOOOO
Pagong Tribe
BROOOOO
Tribal Council
BROOOOO
Tribal Challenge

It got annoying as hell, but thankfully, they cut that nonsense out after a few episodes. But sound-wise, the biggest annoyance was the constant shrieking of what were, I think, bugs in the jungle. There's a constant high-pitched scream throughout the show, always in the background. It sounds a bit like cicadas. I don't know if it was the show, or if something was wrong with the video that was uploaded, but it was very distracting.

But otherwise, Survivor did a lot of things right the first time around. If you love strategic play and complex votes, you'll be left out in the cold, because neither of those really happen. But you do see a lot of the people who chose to play the game, their interactions, and their feelings. And since the concept of lying hasn't really come into play yet, the season is very honest. It is kind of sad when this innocence eventually erodes away, as people begin to realize that they simply can't play the game that way anymore if they want to win. As Lord of the Flies begins to take over the island, several people who were dead-set on playing the game fairly and kindly lament how the game has changed and become something meaner. It's kind of sad, and makes me feel a little guilty for loving a part of the game that is despised by others.

But not too guilty. I look forward to watching the next season, Survivor: Australia, which, if I'm remembering the right season, features Jerri, Survivor's very first villain, "the original black widow." I'm pumped.

By the way, Count, are you done with Samoa yet?