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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 6, 2012 12:57:51 GMT -8
That sounds like it'll be a refreshing change! I'm not sure if I'd watch the first season, but definitely an early one at some point. Maybe when the challenges were better made, but before everyone started playing the game. As for Samoa, not finished yet, i'm on episode 12 at the moment. You're right about Shambo becoming oddly likeable, as she's so goddamn insane. Her 'clairvoyant dream' to vote off Dave is the next big thing, because he got her to kill one of her beloved chickens for food And I love how Russell is totally humouring her about it! 'Its a sign from God, Sham! It has to be done!' and is quite happy to go along with any of her wacky notions if it votes off someone he doesn't explicitly trust. I quite like Natalie now too. She's quite sweet really. Too dumb to play the game, but the kind of girl who you'd like to keep around just because she's always upbeat and likely to keep everyone in a good mood.
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Post by Fleck on Jan 6, 2012 14:00:23 GMT -8
Well, Russell knows (and I think he even goes as far as to say it in one of the interviews) that it's better to NOT argue with the crazy people . Despite all his evil, Russell knows how people think and how they react to things. I wonder what that says about humanity as a whole...
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 8, 2012 2:23:27 GMT -8
Finished Samoa now! Poor Mick not getting any votes at the end, or at least not getting any read out. It was a good season, but I think Russell started getting a little sloppy towards the end in terms of strategy. Clearly, from the reunion show, Russell made the wrong choice about who to take to the end. He totally misinterpreted the way the Jury would ultimately vote, and had he taken Shambo and Jaison, he would have had it. While I can see his point in eliminating the weakest at challenges to ultimately stop Brett, it was a bad move. Why? Because Russell himself was the most consistent challenge winner of all of them, and ultimately it was him that defeated Brett in the final challenge. To me, that says that he didn't have as much confidence in his abilities as he suggested. Furthermore, he tried to get in with Brett in order to ensure his position in the final three had Brett won immunity again. Such a move COULD have worked for him if he'd stuck to his word to Brett and voted for Mick in the final 2, forcing a tie. Russell was notorious by that point for playing the game hard, but I think if he had said 'you're both equally deserving of a spot on the final 3, so I've arranged this vote so that you can both fight for that final spot', then it might have reflected well on him. If Mick had beaten Brett in that challenge, it could have gone differently. Of course, that placed too much control out of of Russell's hands, but in terms of the Jury it would have been a safe bet. However, I am glad that Russell won the best player award - he deserved it. And in that reunion show, it was clear that being regarded as the greatest player was more important than a million dollars. I think Brett almost pulled an Erik in this season - being a nice guy who was mostly ignored, and then suddenly went on a winning spree right at the end. I think in the trailers for Heroes vs Villains, Erik was in the Heroes team, but I'd like to see Brett there too. He really was a nice guy, and took his defeat with exceptional grace and sportsmanship. I guess I'll find out when I watch it next though But before I do that, I got SSH to read!
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Post by Fleck on Jan 8, 2012 10:11:04 GMT -8
I think Russell got too arrogant in the end. He seemed to be under the impression that, because his game was so much more strategic, ruthless, and effective than anyone else, that it didn't really matter who came to the final three. He underestimated everyone. The only exception being Brett. He thought that the jury would sympathize with him, being from the same tribe. So the combination of thinking that Brett was his only challenger, mixed in with the idea that he wasn't going to lose to anybody else, ultimately led Russell to make the decisions he made, which cost him the game. He tried to hedge his bets at the last minute, and it totally wrecked his game. A lot of Survivor seasons have one person who goes on a streak at the end. I think it's because the tribes get a lot smaller (less competition), and once most of the strongest competitors are gone, it's not much of a stretch for the last strong person to make a run for it. That's why the strategy of taking out people who could win to the end is so realistic and important, because there's almost always at least one person who could win to the end. But you have to admit... Russell worked the impossible. Going into the merge, down eight to four and then still getting three members of his tribe to the final three. That's pretty much unheard of. Sometimes one or two people in the lesser tribe can work their way into an alliance with the major tribe and survive to the end, but never the whole group. That's just absurd. Now... Now it is time, young padawan. You must face the final trial, arguably the best season of Survivor... Heroes Versus Villains. I started to wonder if it really was such a great season, or if I was just biased because it was the first season I watched, so I went back and re-watched the first episode and man... it's still pretty awesome. They just go all out that season. When the Heroes get helicoptered out to the beach, there's this heroic and noble music going on, and they strut out onto their mat and meet up with Jeff... and then the music shifts and gets all evil, and the villains come out. It's like an epic movie. And the first challenge is brutal, and if memory serves, all the challenges are pretty brutal. There's so much pent-up anger on both sides that when they meet, it's like a battle to the death. There's some great strategy, surprises, twists, immunity idols, and OMG WHY AREN'T YOU WATCHING! !?
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 8, 2012 15:41:53 GMT -8
Yeah, Russell did play a fantastic game - his ability to keep Foa Foa alive the whole time was amazing, I just think when it came down to the last week or so that he just started getting too cocky and played sloppily as a result. Well, sloppy by his standards anyway. Still damn good by most I look forward to seeing who's in the heroes group. I'd like to see Jonathan Penner again, with him getting taken out due to injury quite early into the Micronesia one, I felt like he hadn't reached his full potential. I know he came from a season before that, but he seemed like a hero.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 9, 2012 10:25:43 GMT -8
Watched the first 2 episodes of HvV, and it's very interesting how quickly the Heroes are to go at each-other's throats when the going gets tough. They worked together amazingly well at first to get a shelter, but after losing twice they're falling apart fast. Ok, I didn't like Stephanie and am glad she went out, but I was surprised at how much James laid into her. When I saw him before, he seemed like a nice guy. Never one to take any crap, but a good sport and never went looking for a fight. In this, he just singled out Stephanie and was unusually harsh towards her in the tribal. I hadn't seen Tom before and had no opinion on him, but after he stood up for Stephanie I think very highly of him. He's the kind of guy that could probably hold the Heroes team together in the wake of people like James and Rupert getting pissed off at losing.
However, the real Hero so far is Boston Rob. Not seen him before but I know he's pretty notorious as far as villains go for whatever reason. But to be fair, he's been the guy who's been keeping camp going, absolutely dominating the puzzle portion of the challenges with a surprising amount of intellect and leadership (despite the Villains always starting at a disadvantage due to their weaker physical presence), and managed to overcome fainting and possibly being ill and saw his team through to victory at the challenge the next day.
First challenge was epic though. 2 broken toes and a dislocated shoulder. Plus Sugar getting her top removed XD
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Post by Fleck on Jan 9, 2012 13:48:08 GMT -8
That's one of the really cool things about HvV... how quickly the tribe names go out the window. There are heroes in the villains tribe and villains in the heroes tribe and it's not always who you'd expect. I forget who said it, but one of the survivors summed it up right away in the first episode. I think it was Tom actually, who said that people might change their strategies, and those who were villains in past seasons might try their hand at being heroes and vice versa. I think HvV, more than most any other season, has a lot of psychology and strategy at play because there's just so much going on. KEEP WATCHING OMG!
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Post by Fleck on Jan 9, 2012 14:15:47 GMT -8
Thoughts on Survivor: Australia
This is a pretty good season, and in some ways an improvement over Survivor: Borneo. Certainly the show itself is much improved, with better direction, more focus, and better camerawork. While no one in Australia really argues about the morality of having a voting alliance (like they did in Borneo), there is still a great deal of talk about morality in general, and many votes are informed more by emotional opinion rather than pure strategy. There is still talk of strategy and some people are voted off for political reasons, but those are generally last resorts. Strategy generally only comes into play when all the easy options are off the table. Which is true, to an extent, for most seasons of Survivor, but more noticeable in Australia.
Ultimately, like its predecessor, Australia is still heavily focused on the survival aspect, more than the game aspect. The show is still evolving, and the novelty of the original concept hasn't worn off yet. This is helped by the fact that Australia was one of the more difficult seasons, in terms of pure survival. It was probably on par with Micronesia, if not worse than that. I don't want to spoil anything, in case someone reading this ever gets around to watching the second season of Survivor, but this season features two huge survival errors by the tribes (one of which actually required Jeff to intervene to make sure no one died or received any permanent damage), and one of the most horrific injuries ever in Survivor. So even though this season is more about the survival than the game, it's still not boring.
The biggest disappointment, I think, is Jerri. Count's gotten far enough in HvV to at least know who she is, and I was really expecting more from her. I thought Survivor's first villain would be a bit more... villainous. But really, her only crime throughout the show is playing the game strategically. Honestly, Jerri played the game the way most people do in modern seasons of Survivor. She looked at the people she was surrounded with, made allies with people she thought could advance her in the game, and went after people she thought were threats. That's just good Survivor. But since, at that time, the show was still heavily focused on the survival aspect, such callous play was regarded as villainous, and Jerri was labeled as a villain (unfairly, in my opinion). Really, she didn't so anything wrong. She was just a little more into the game than anyone else. Maybe she earns her title in her second season, Survivor: All-Stars. I hope so.
Anyway, Count, you mentioned that you might be interested in watching an early season, before the game really kicked off but after the production values rose. I haven't seen any of season 3 yet, but I don't think you're going to find a better balance than Australia. Already the game is starting to take shape, and the standard Survivor strategies are being born.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 9, 2012 15:43:11 GMT -8
That's good to hear! Yeah, from what I've seen of Jerri she doesn't seem that villainous - she's no worse than say, Cirie, who really isn't a hero in my eyes. That's not to say she's a villain either, she's just very good at knowing how to align herself to advance, and isn't afraid of making tough decisions to do so. I'm sad to see no Jonathan Penner this season - I didn't see much of him, but he's a favourite and he seemed heroic, far more so than many of the 'heroes'. And you're right, many Heroes are showing a villainous side and vice-versa.
Also, Parvati a villain? Really? To me she's like Cirie, only difference is that Parvati's able to use her sexiness to get in with the guys a bit more. I like what she said about Russell though when he made one of his secret alliances with her. 'I know Russell's doing this with half the tribe. I'm making a deal with the Devil, but I'd rather have the Devil on my side'.
As for the injury on Survivor: Australia, I think I've heard about it. SPOILERS!? Doesn't someone fall into a fire?
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Post by Fleck on Jan 9, 2012 20:20:22 GMT -8
There are a lot of people who probably could have easily made the Heroes Tribe, but didn't for some reason or another. Colleen, possibly the biggest hero ever from season 1, flat-out refused to ever return to Survivor because she hated what the show had become and never liked alliances or backstabbing/lying. Elisabeth from season 2 was much the same way: both were too good for the game. Some people couldn't make it back for some reason or another (Richard Hatch was actually under house arrest and legally couldn't leave the country), and some didn't feel like returning. It is quite a lot to ask someone to play Survivor a second or third time.
I think people were separated into heroes or villains based on how they were perceived in their respective seasons. For instance, Jerri, when compared to modern seasons, isn't much of a villain, but because she was a progressive player, she was rather disliked in her seasons and somewhat of an outcast in her tribe. I think ultimately the difference between Cirie and Parvati is that A: Parvati is more open and aggressive with her strategy, while Cirie tends to sit back and react to events, rather than cause them and B: Parvati just has a more evil vibe. Cirie just seems nicer, although judging purely by their actions, there's not a whole lot of difference between the two.
And SPOILZLOL: Yes. It was briefly mentioned in Fans Versus Favorites, but I wasn't sure if you remembered that question in the quiz. Falling in the fire doesn't really seem that bad, but holy shit, watching the actual injury was pretty bad. He was sitting in the river and screaming, and his hands looked like he was holding big wads of wet paper. His skin was just falling off. When the medics came, he was basically begging for pain medications. He was like "give me shots, give me whatever, just give me something." It was really bad.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 9, 2012 23:57:49 GMT -8
Ouuccchhhh. Poor guy. Although I did laugh when you said "Falling in the fire doesn't really seem that bad" - I'd say that DOES sound pretty bad really Although I'm sure its a lot worse when you watch it.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 11, 2012 21:15:40 GMT -8
I'm watching episode 5 of HvV, and the Villains just won the reward challenge, that one with the basketball hoops and the people in the middle play full-contact to keep control of the balls. Now, while I'm glad the Villains won as I like a great deal more of their players (only Hero I really like right now is Tom), I thought it was very unfair for the Heroes. James got taken out of it because of a leg injury, which is fair enough. But the heroes had already sat out Colby - why were they not allowed to sub in Colby for the remainder of the challenge? When they did this challenge before, it made sense not to sub anyone in as Ben made some cheap shots and essentially got himself a red card, and so having the team be 1 player down was fair enough. But in this case, it was a legitimate injury caused by the villains (albeit accidentally), and I don't think it was really fair for the Heroes to be disadvantaged because of it. Colby is no James, physically, but he would be better than being 2v3 in the pit. I don't really see why this didn't happen :/ Edit: On the immunity challenge, James being the caller is scary XD He's always been a guy who talks deeply and quietly, and him shouting sounded very gravelly and demonic Coming up to the tribal now. I'm hoping they keep James on. I think his injury will recover in a week or so, and the 'heroic' thing to do would be to give him a chance to recover, at least until the next tribal. Candice doesn't seem to be helpful even on form, so voting her out makes sense. Also, with JT being the swing vote in EVERY vote lately, choosing sides as he pleases, I don't think it'll be long before he's gone. With two distinct alliances now emerging, I don't think either alliance would want to be in a position that relies entirely on his vote. Edit 2: Aw, Tom's gone. Now I'm 100% on the villains side I'm surprised that the heroes considered Tom to be weak though. He may be older, but you can tell that he's still in his prime. While it would have been sad to see James go purely on the basis of an injury - even if he has been a dick this season - I would rather him gone than Tom. Edit 3: Woo! About time Russell stepped up his game; he really hadn't been playing to the standard I expected of him, but that tribal where he managed to not only gauge that Parvati was on the way out, but also turn Tyson's vote onto Parvati to in effect vote himself out, was brilliant. Of course there was a gamble in that - he had only a 50% chance of swaying someone who was supposed to vote for him, but I guess he chose the person he thought was dumbest and hoped for the best. Still, an excellent play, and hopefully the other Villains will start paying him attention now. You get the feeling that most of them don't respect him in the way the do the rest of them, presumably because he is the relative 'newbie'.
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Post by Fleck on Jan 12, 2012 9:45:41 GMT -8
I'm not sure why they weren't allowed to do a substitution. Maybe to keep people from taking dives? "Oh, I'm so injured, I have to sit this one out." Plus, I think, subbing players would get confusing, since the same person cannot be sat out twice in a row. Do you consider the person originally chosen to sit out as the person who "sat out" last challenge, or do you consider the person who got injured to be the person who "sat out?" Also, Survivor tends to not be very lenient or fair when it comes to injuries. After all, they often make a tribe go to tribal council even after they lose a person due to injury, effectively cutting their tribe by two members in one cycle. Occasionally they make exceptions, but I think they only do that when having an unexpected double elimination would screw with their numbers.
I never particularly cared for Tom. He seems like a decent enough guy, and he's certainly got enough heart to play the game well, but he never seemed very strong to me. Also, I think there generally is a bias towards older players, as they rarely get deep into the game, even when they're no weaker than the younger players. Appearances mean a lot in Survivor, and appearing old and weak is often more important than actually being old and weak.
Yeah, Russell doesn't rush out of the gate in HvV like he did in Samoa, but once he makes that move against Tyson, all bets are off. If I remember right, Russell's game kicks into full gear from this point on.
Also, nobody respects Russell yet because no one actually knew who he was. HvV takes place literally twenty days after Samoa ended, and Samoa had yet to air on television when the castaways were put on the island. From what I heard, the survivors were told that Russell was a notorious villain, but no one had actually seen it personally. As such, no one really paid any attention to him until the Tyson stunt.
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Post by countlieberkuhn on Jan 12, 2012 12:41:06 GMT -8
Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm guessing Russell didn't actually find out if he won his first season until he was done with his second? That's gotta be rough.
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Post by Fleck on Jan 14, 2012 19:59:23 GMT -8
Thoughts on Survivor: Africa
And I thought the survival conditions of Survivor: Outback and Survivor: Samoa were bad. Without a doubt, the conditions of Africa were the most difficult of any season I've ever watched. A combination of incredibly harsh wilderness, the constant and real wildlife threat, horrible water and food conditions, all combined with the fact that the survivors are still very inexperienced and, like they did in Survivor: Outback, they make some poor decisions that cost them, makes this a very grueling season. You actually feel kind of exhausted yourself, after watching everything these guys go through.
I mean, they live in a camp, surrounded by acacia bushes because otherwise freaking lions will eat them in their sleep. They have to keep a watch at night and keep their fire burning continually to avoid being eaten/trampled/mauled. The water they drink comes from a nasty spring that animals shit in constantly. There is no shade, almost no water sources, and the weather is an almost constant "fiery hell with no clouds."
When I saw how awful the conditions were, I thought that Africa was going to be a step backwards for Survivor, in terms of strategy development, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that, despite the constant near-deathness of the season, the show still adds layers and intrigue to the growing Survivor playbook.
Strategy development is further enhanced by Survivor's first official twist. Borneo and Outback were hurt by the fact that they were completely predictable, down to the exact day of the merge. Africa changes things up a bit, which throws the survivors for a loop and forces them to consider the game at a deeper level.
One of the problems with this season, though, is that many of the survivors aren't terribly likable. There's this crazy woman who keeps ranting about "Mother Africa" and trying to start this crazy cult in the tribe, a gaggle of young kids who just want to sleep all the time, and a bunch of introverted old people who, we are told, are very nice, but no one really stands out. The lovable hayseed from Virginia eventually becomes likeable, but then he starts kind of being evil, which makes it hard to like him.
All in all, another fine season, and the first one that I can honestly say feels like Survivor. There's plotting and planning and alliances and swing votes and split votes and redemptions and all the stuff you expect from later seasons of the game. It's just kind of sad that the cast is so flat.
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